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Featured Acts 2:47 – The Bible vs Human Theology

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jul 1, 2022.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Acts 2:47 – The Bible vs Human Theology

    “αἰνοῦντες τὸν θεὸν καὶ ἔχοντες χάριν πρὸς ὅλον τὸν λαόν ὁ δὲ κύριος προσετίθει τοὺς σῳζομένους καθ' ἡμέραν τῇ ἐκκλησία” Robert Estienne (Stephanus 1550)

    The first English New Testament from the Greek, was carried out by the English “Reformed”, theologian and scholar, William Tyndale, in 1526. Tyndale translated the above Greek into English:

    “praysinge God and had faveour with all the people. And the Lorde added to ye congregacion dayly soche as shuld be saved”

    The English Versions by, Coverdale (1535), Great (1539), Bishops (1568), Geneva (1587), and King James (1611), were influenced by Tyndale, and copied what he wrote. As the KJV reads:

    “Praising God, and hauing fauour with all the people. And the Lord added to the Church dayly such as should be saued”

    Here we have a classic example, where the “theology” of the translators, outweigh what the actual Greek text, as Inspired by God the Holy Spirit, says.

    The Greek, “τοὺς σῳζομένους”, reads in these English Versions, as also in some others, “such as should be saved”. This gives the false view, that there are certain people who God wanted to be saved, and only saved them. This comes from the false teaching of “election to salvation”, which is completely foreign to what the Bible actually teaches.

    The Greek, “τοὺς σῳζομένους”, is the present, active participle, which is literally translated into English, “those who were being saved”, denoting a progressive condition, which was continuance, as from the ongoing Revival in the early Church.

    “The Lord added day by day those who were continually saved”

    Reformed/Calvinists, no doubt prefer the perverted reading of the older versions, which reflect their erroneous teaching on the salvation of lost sinners.

    The Infallible Word of God again disagrees with their “human theology”
     
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  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    praising God, and having favour with all the people, and the Lord was adding those being saved every day to the assembly. YLT

    'Saved', from what? www.godrules.net/library/strongs2b/gre4982.htm

    Hint: v 40.
     
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  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Acts 2:47 "praising God and having the good will of all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number every day those who were being saved.(NET)

    The problem with the KJV was corrected in the NKJV and WEB.

    The OP makes a very valid point, the theology (and thus presuppositions) of the Translators influences how they understand the text. So we have rich in faith changed to "to be" rich in faith, changing a conditional election into an unconditional election. James 2:5. We have for salvation changed into "to be saved" again to hide the biblical doctrine of conditional election through faith. (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
     
  4. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Really? My PREFERRED translation says:

    47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

    The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Ac 2:47.
     
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  5. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    The word of God in English.

    praysinge God and had faveour with all the people. And the Lorde added to the congregacion dayly soche as shuld be saved
     
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    I have all along know that you are not a real Calvinist, only pretending ;)
     
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Say what? :Geek
     
  8. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    But again, this whole thread is nonsense and just shows that @SavedByGrace doesn't know English or how to use a dictionary. Surely he knows that those older translations were not written in MODERN DAY English. And a simple lookup of the word "should" shows that it originally was the PAST TENSE of shall. Meaning it means the SAME THING as he is arguing that it should say.

    Those that were saved were added. Nothing to see here. Move on.
     
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  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Dude the tense is PRESENT

    Are being saved
     
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You completely missed the point.
     
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  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Those responsible for the Jerusalem Bible, translated the Latin, "Dominus autem augebat, qui salvi fierent cotidie in idipsum", as "Day by day the Lord added to their community those destined to be saved". Whereas the correct english is, "And every day, the Lord increased those who were being saved among them". No doubt a theological translation.

    Commenting on the KJV, Adam Clarke says:

    "Our translation, which indeed existed long before our present authorized version, as may be seen in Cardmarden’s Bible, 1566, Beck’s Bible, 1549, and Tindall’s Testament, printed by Will. Tylle, in 1548, is bad in itself; but it has been rendered worse by the comments put on it, viz. that those whom God adds to the Church shall necessarily and unavoidably be eternally saved; whereas no such thing is hinted by the original text, be the doctrine of the indefectibility of the saints true or false - which shall be examined in its proper place"

    And Dr Charles Ellicott, the chairman of the Revised Version of 1881, "The verse takes its place among the few passages in which the translators have, perhaps, been influenced by a Calvinistic bias"

    Philip Schaff in his commentary says

    "Such as should be saved. The Greek word here, τοὺς σωζομένους, should be rendered simply the saved—that is, those who were escaping day by day from the evil around them, and taking refuge in the Ark of the Church (Wordsworth). The English Version has been charged here with a strong Calvinistic bias, implying that those who were predestined to be saved were being brought gradually into the pale of salvation. It is, however, clear that no doctrinal prejudice was the source of the error here as all the early English versions except that of Wickliffe have it"

    There can be no doubt of the Calvinistic bias in the translations like the KJV, and has nothing to do with the older versions not getting it right!
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    the POINT has been answered in #11!
     
  13. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Nope, you still missed the point.
     
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  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    in # 8 you wrote

    "And a simple lookup of the word "should" shows that it originally was the PAST TENSE of shall"

    The Greek, “τοὺς σῳζομένους”, is the present, active participle, and CANNOT have a PAST TENSE!

    Learn some Greek grammar snip! :eek::rolleyes:

    and the three who BLINDLY gave you "winner" in #8, should also LEARN snip!
     
    #14 SavedByGrace, Jul 1, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2022
  15. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    You are wrong. The word σῳζομένους is a participle, but it is present passive, not present active. In Greek, the middle/passive participles use μεν as (what some refer to) the tense formative. If this were an active participle, it would be spelled something like: σῳζοντας. The tell-tale sign (or tense formative) of the present active participle is οντ.

    The translation the ESV has is correct: "those who were being saved."

    Three more things:

    (1) The key here is the passive. In Greek, the passive (and it's passive, not middle... but I'll get to that in a minute) denotes action done to someone, something, or a group of someones or somethings. In the passive, the "subject" of the word (here, the ones being saved) are not saving themselves. They are being saved. Who are they being saved by?

    (2) The governing verb in the passage is προστίθημι (imperfect, active, indicative), which is "added." Who is doing the action in the sentence: "And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved?" God is. God added. So, those "who were being saved" (remember the passive) are being saved by God, not by anything they were doing.

    The Archangel
     
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  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    I stand corrected that it is the PASSIVE, but this does not allow for the translations like the KJV!

    The reading "those who should be saved" cannot be from the Greek, "τοὺς σῳζομένους”
     
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Greek is not English
     
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  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    There is NO PAST tense in the Greek “τοὺς σῳζομένους”! it is PRESENT

    you continue to post false stuff on here!
     
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    that is because you have NO point! Your argument is WRONG by PAST tense, when it is PRESENT!

    "who are in the process of being saved", as the literal Greek has it
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    and exactly WHAT does this prove? NOTHING!

    You have completely missed what the OP says, the KJV and other versions that read, "should be saved", is NOT what the Greek says, but THEOLOGY!

    No one is questioning that it is God Who does the saving, so your reasoining is MOOT!
     
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