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Acts 5:30

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by robycop3, Jun 11, 2004.

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  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Here is Acts 5:30 from various newer BVs:

    NIV:"The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead--whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree."

    NASB: "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross."

    Amplified: "The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, Whom you killed by hanging Him on a tree (cross)."

    New Living Translation: "The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead after you killed him by crucifying him."

    NKJV: "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree."

    Young's Literal Translation: "and the God of our fathers did raise up Jesus, whom ye slew, having hanged upon a tree;"

    And, from the KJV: "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree."

    The KJV is alone in stating Jesus was slain AND hanged on a tree. All the excuses, fishing stories, spin, & use of double standards won't change one peep of this writing.

    While I won't toss my KJVs because of this booboo, I will certainly continue to laugh at those who insist the KJV is perfect.
     
    #1 robycop3, Jun 11, 2004
  2. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Are you absolutely 100% certain the Romans didn't slay people and then hang them on the cross just to be sure they were dead? ;)
     
    #2 Keith M, Jun 11, 2004
  3. Anti-Alexandrian

    Anti-Alexandrian Member

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    NOT!!!!!!

    Your grasping for straws again! [​IMG]

    THIS LINK to an online Geneva Bible proves different.

    Will has a article on the subject HERE.
     
    #3 Anti-Alexandrian, Jun 11, 2004
  4. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim New Member

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    Good verse Roby I had never seen it before.
     
    #4 DeclareHim, Jun 11, 2004
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Anti-Alexandrian:NOT!!!!!!

    Your grasping for straws again!

    THIS LINK to an online Geneva Bible proves different.

    So the GB made the mistake, and the KJV followed it. Steve Z's online GB, which is more closely true to the original than that which you provided,(Neither follow the original SPELLINGS) shows the GB made a worse error by adding a comma after "slew"! Here it is, from a true GB replica: "The God of our fathers hath raised vp Iesus, whom ye slewe, and hanged on a tree."

    I made an error myself. I should have said, "Bibles in current use", as there are more likely some other versions with the reading "slew & hanged" or something similar.



    Will has a article on the subject HERE.

    Will has posted it before elsewhere, and as I said in the initial post of this thread, " All the excuses, fishing stories, spin, & use of double standards won't change one peep of this writing."

    And that includes Will's, and YOURS. The AV translators, having the Geneva Bible before them, are without excuse for repeating the error.
     
    #5 robycop3, Jun 11, 2004
  6. Anti-Alexandrian

    Anti-Alexandrian Member

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    So in other words,(Notice the comma)you will boldly maintain your belief that the Bible(KJB) has errors in it,period.

    I guess God goofed :confused: Oh well.

    Next silly thread please.
     
    #6 Anti-Alexandrian, Jun 11, 2004
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Anti-Alexandrian:So in other words,(Notice the comma)you will boldly maintain your belief that the Bible(KJB) has errors in it,period.

    Why not? the proof is right in front of us.

    I guess God goofed Oh well.

    Nope, but some of the 47 HUMAN AV translators did. Clearly shown.

    Next silly thread please.

    Must be one started by a KJVO.
     
    #7 robycop3, Jun 11, 2004
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Roby - there is the key difference. AA believes GOD wrote the KJV (and it is therefore perfect) and you believe 47 paedo-baptizing Anglican priests translated it (and therefore has poor word choices, inaccurate translations - God forbid! - grammatical flaws, etc)

    Which makes AA and extreme KVJonly and you NOT!
     
    #8 Dr. Bob, Jun 12, 2004
  9. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Acts 5:30. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. (KJV)

    Acts 5:30. "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. (NASB, 1995)

    Acts 10:39. "We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. (NASB, 1995)

    Robycop3,

    You are reading into the words of the translators of the KJV a concept that is not really there. That concept is consecutiveness. The KJV does not say the Jews slew Jesus and THEN hanged him on a tree. It says that they slew him and hanged him on a tree. That is, they did two things, but not consecutively:

    1. They slew Jesus
    2. They hanged him on a tree

    But why did the translators of the KJV translate Acts 5:30 and 10:39 as they did? Probably because in all likelihood Peter, who was speaking in both of these verses, was making a reference to Deut. 21:22,

    Deut. 21:22. "If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree,
    Deut. 21:23. his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.

    Compare Josephus’ Jewish Antiquities iv. 8. 6.

    [​IMG]
     
    #9 Craigbythesea, Jun 12, 2004
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, Craig, but "and" is used to join one finite verb(slew) to another(hanged) and communicates consecutivity to the average reader. While I am told that there's no article or conjunction in the Greek between 'slew' & 'hanged', the LOGICAL translation would be 'slew BY hanging' given the context of the rest of the NT. It doesn't matter how correct 'slew and hanged' was in 1611; this is NOW.
     
    #10 robycop3, Jun 12, 2004
  11. Anti-Alexandrian

    Anti-Alexandrian Member

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    And that shows me that you dont have a clue as to what your talking about.
     
    #11 Anti-Alexandrian, Jun 12, 2004
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    There is an alternative reading not based upon a variant but semantics which I've never seen published in an English translation that I am aware of. Anyway here it is:

    The usual word for : to kill, to slay or put to death is apokteino used 75 times in the NT.

    The word in Acts 5:30 is
    1315 diacheirizomai {dee-akh-i-rid'-zom-ahee}
    Meaning: 1) to move by the use of the hands, take in hand, manage, administer, govern 2) to lay hands on, slay, kill [with one's own hand]
    Origin: from 1223 and a derivative of 5495;; v
    Usage: AV - slay 1, kill 1; 2

    In the primary meaning of the word the passage could be translated:

    The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye laid hands on and hanged on a tree.

    Or

    The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye condemned and hanged on a tree.

    But this is from the Greek and would make every known English translation (that I know of) wrong including the KJV.

    An exception would be the UBS Louw & Nida Greek-English Lexicon which has "whom you seized and killed".

    My opinion, of course.

    HankD

    [ June 12, 2004, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
    #12 HankD, Jun 12, 2004
  13. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Equating GOD goofing because the KJV has errors implies what? That GOD was behind the KJV translation.

    Did God supernaturally guide those paedo-baptizing Anglican priests?

    Did He "reinspire" them to change Greek meaning, add words, make up additions to the Greek text?

    GOD didn't goof. MEN goof. God's Word cannot be changed, whether by modern paraphrasers or 1611 priests. God forbid!
     
    #13 Dr. Bob, Jun 12, 2004
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Hank D-

    I would say the AV men used 'slew' because of the context of the rest of the Bible. We mustn't forget that the ROMANS crucified Jesus upon the Jewish religious leaders' demand, and that Jesus 'gave up the ghost only when He was ready, and all the prophecies about His first coming had been fulfilled.

    My quarrel isn't with the correctness of the passage in 1611-it's with the fact that it could easily mislead a modern reader and is yet another reason to not be KJVO.
     
    #14 robycop3, Jun 12, 2004
  15. Slambo

    Slambo New Member

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    Yep,looks like it.

    :confused: D'oh!!!
     
    #15 Slambo, Jun 12, 2004
  16. Slambo

    Slambo New Member

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    Could have.After all,it happened in Jeremiah 36.
     
    #16 Slambo, Jun 12, 2004
  17. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    What??? Did you want to try this again? First, nothing with respect ot Greek or the Greek text happened in Jeremiah 36. Second, there is absolutely no evidence that anything was changed. You don't know what was cut up and thrown into the fire. Therefore, you cannot say that it was changed.

    This highlights one of hte major problems with the KJV position. You assume that you know what the originals said and assume that the KJV matches them. Yet you don't have those documents. Therefore, you are speculating. And Scripture does warn us to beware of speculations.
     
    #17 Pastor Larry, Jun 12, 2004
  18. Slambo

    Slambo New Member

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    Jeremiah 36:27-28.Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying,Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned.


    Jeremiah 36:32 Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.

    You see,I will take God's word over your twisted view of Scripture anyday...In short,your post was wrong.
     
    #18 Slambo, Jun 12, 2004
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Slambo:Jeremiah 36:27-28.Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying,Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned.


    Jeremiah 36:32 Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.

    You(and I) don't know whether the words on either scroll made Scripture or not, and if they did, you cannot show us what was on the original and what was added to the second one. Like most KJVO arguments, this one is guesswork too.
     
    #19 robycop3, Jun 12, 2004
  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Well, Slambo, was Jesus slain AND hanged from a tree or not?
     
    #20 robycop3, Jun 12, 2004
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