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Featured "aionios"

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Rebel1, Sep 23, 2018.

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  1. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    I thought the topic of enough importance to start a new thread.

    In Matthew 25:46, the correct rendering of the verse is this: "And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life." Young's Literal translation has it thus: "And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during." See this reference: Matthew 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

    Of all the translations listed there, Young's is the only honest and correct one. Also, at the bottom of the page in the footnotes there is this: "On the one hand, then, it is urged that as we hold the "eternal life" to have no end, so we must hold also the endlessness of the "eternal fire." On the other hand, it must be admitted (1) that the Greek word which is rendered "eternal," does not in itself involve endlessness, but rather duration, whether through an age or a succession of ages; and that it is therefore applied in the New Testament to periods of time that have had both beginning and ending (Romans 16:25, where the Greek is "from aeonian times," our version giving "since the world began"--comp. 2Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2), and in the Greek version of the Old Testament to institutions and ordinances that were confessedly to wax old and vanish away (Genesis 17:8; Leviticus 3:17); and (2) that in the language of a Greek Father (Gregory of Nyssa, who held the doctrine of the restitution of all things) it is even connected with the word "interval," as expressing the duration of the penal discipline which was, he believed, to come to an end after an aeonian intervening period. Strictly speaking, therefore, the word, as such, and apart from its association with any qualifying substantive, implies a vast undefined duration, rather than one in the full sense of the word "infinite."

    Also, it would do one well to read al of the above referenced footnote.

    John 3:16 is correctly translated as follows: "For God so loved the world that His only begotten Son He gave That whosoever believes on Him might not perish but have life age-abiding. Young's Literal translation has it this way: "for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during."

    The bottom line: An age is a long, indefinite period of time; it is not an eternity. The length of such an age is determined by God's choice, and by ours.

    Another truth to be learned here: God, even more so than the most loving parent, punishes for correction and restoration, not for vengeance or retribution.

    I don't know about you, but I believe in an infinitely loving and merciful God who is also just.; this is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. I do not believe in a god who is a fiend like the doctrines of eternal hell and penal substitutionary atonement make him out to be.
     
    #1 Rebel1, Sep 23, 2018
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    This thread was already debunked in the other thread, Sorry for your luck.
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Sep 23, 2018
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God has no problems with either everlasting Hell for those who reject Jesus to save them, nor does he have any problem with PST, so why should you?
     
    #3 Yeshua1, Sep 24, 2018
  4. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    We know that the 'age-abiding' life is eternal. John 11:25-26. "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
    So if 'age-abiding' life is eternal, why do you think that 'age-abiding correction is not eternal?
     
    #4 Martin Marprelate, Sep 25, 2018
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  5. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    First, I appreciate that you are trying to understand my position and why I hold it. This is a refreshing change from the way some have replied to me before.

    I believe that the length of an age is determined by God and by our choice. I believe that God punishes spiritually for correction and reformation, not for vengeance. I guess to summarize, my view is this: Based on the use of the words "aion" and "aionios", and the character/nature of God as revealed in Jesus Christ, I believe those in hell are there as long as they continue in rebellion, resistance, and disobedience. Those in heaven are there as long as they continue to believe, love God, and obey Him.

    I believe our freedom to choose is never taken away, not in this life nor the next. I could write more if need be.

    At this point in my life, I really don't care anymore if someone calls me a heretic or not. Because of my belief, some years ago a friend of mine who believed in a vindictive God who inflicts eternal hell on people changed his mind about that, just shortly before he died. He was a Christian, but he had always been greatly troubled by thinking that God would punish someone forever for what was done within the lifespan of a human being.
     
    #5 Rebel1, Sep 26, 2018
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I tend not to use the 'H' word because of its association with Roman Catholicism and the Inquisition. However, you should not take that as any indication that I have sympathy with your views.
    First, you must understand that the meaning of a word (in any language) is not determined primarily by its etymology, but by the contexts in which it is used. For example, the word aionios in Romans 16:25 means eternal backwards, from eternity past until the time of Christ. But in Romans 16:26, aionios refers to God, whom I trust that you would regard as eternal.

    Next, take 2 Corinthians 4:18. '.....For the things that are seen are temporary [proskairos; lit. 'For a season'] but the things that are not seen are eternal.' Here, temporary things are contrasted with things that are aionios. Surely this is adequate proof that aionios rather clearly means 'eternal.' Elsewhere God's power (1 Timothy 6:16), His glory (1 Peter 5:10) and His kingdom (2 Peter 1:11) are described as aionios. Come on, man! It means eternal!
    Oh boy! I can't tell you how glad I am that this isn't so! I am longing to be finished with sin and temptation forever. Still to be battling with these things is not heaven, and nor would be the constant fear of being thrown out into hell. You just haven't thought these things out.
    I believe in a holy God. I also believe in a God who gave His beloved Son to create a way for sinful men and women to be forgiven and have eternal life. If hell were not a reality, Christ need never have come and suffered in such a terrible way.

    Finally, the way to bring people to salvation is not to tell them that hell is not so bad after all (and heaven not so great), but to point them to the Saviour and tell them, 'Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'
     
    #6 Martin Marprelate, Sep 26, 2018
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Those in hell will NEVER repent or desire to receive Jesus as Lord, and there is NO verse to support them ever doing that! And those in heaven will NEVER desire to rebll against Jesus, as we will be as he is in our minds/thoughts andatitiudes!
     
    #7 Yeshua1, Sep 26, 2018
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So the author of the op in this thread like the other one intentionally ignores the clear evidence that his position is blatantly false.
     
    #8 Revmitchell, Sep 26, 2018
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  9. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Young is merely showing the difference between "to the end of time" and long existence "outside of time" Scripture distinguishes the two but translators and others do not , Our doctrine has interchanged the two.
    Young Literal Translation does not, I guess that is why it is literal
     
    #9 loDebar, Sep 26, 2018
  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Rebel1, We are all going to be there to bring up these following charges against you on Judgement day:

    Next case is absolutely hilarious, Jesus,

    We have a fella who's idea of you has got to be a joke, he trusted you God, he thought you were so kind and loving! ha ha ha,

    He thought you were so merciful he had the audacity to actually believe you had a problem with the idea of torturing folks and sending them to hell.

    He has this silly belief that there is no way you would torture Jesus, Isn't that crazy? and get this , He thinks you are the perfect hero who can deliver all mankind from evil.


    Jesus Answers: Yes..errm..that is very crazy.:Cautious send him to "hell" with the others who think I was too loving and kind.;)



    I'm sorry Rebel1 is going to miss out on "heaven" -->a room full of people who think God gets his kicks from torturing other people.
     
    #10 utilyan, Sep 26, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  11. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    I never thought you had any sympathy with my views. I simply appreciate that you did not and and have not attacked me personally.

    Now, as for this post of yours, I appreciate the thoughtfulness and detail of it.

    I never said that I didn't think God is eternal; what I do contend is that God determines the length of an age, as that is applied to the conditions and length of punishment or correction in hell. And, concerning heaven, if once-perfect beings could rebel and be cast out of heaven, why would those in the future heaven not have the ability to do that also? The only way that could not be the case is if those there have their free will taken away from them. I submit that God has never taken free will away from anyone, that He could not do it because of an essential part of His nature.

    I also never said that hell was not a reality; the question is, how long does it last. And I never said nor do I believe that hell is "not so bad after all". The crux of the matter is the nature of God and how He deals with his children.
     
    #11 Rebel1, Sep 27, 2018
  12. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    What was the purpose of Jesus after His death going and preaching to the spirits in prison (hell)? Simply to declare Who He was? I don't think so.
     
    #12 Rebel1, Sep 27, 2018
  13. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    The idea that many have of God does not even make Him as just, merciful, and loving as a human parent. Instead, it makes him a fiend. Great harm is being done by presenting this view as the "gospel". Why would anyone want to serve such a vindictive, cruel deity?
     
    #13 Rebel1, Sep 27, 2018
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  14. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    Just to make my position clear: It would not be correct to say that I am a universalist. Theoretically, hell could last forever, or indefinitely, if the person there persisted in unrepentance and rebellion, which is a possibility if one believes in the freedom of the will. Then the time spent there might well be described as "to the ages of the ages", or similar usage.
     
    #14 Rebel1, Sep 27, 2018
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  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Exact BACKWARDS Gospel

    God so HATED the WORLD that he tortured and killed his only son. So that God might believe you are saved.
     
    #15 utilyan, Sep 27, 2018
  16. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    Yes, unconditional eternal hell and penal substitution is certainly not "good news". Rather, this view closely depicts Molech.
     
    #16 Rebel1, Sep 27, 2018
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus did not preach to them, more like he announded that he was the risen Lord at that time!
     
    #17 Yeshua1, Sep 27, 2018
  18. Ready to Harvest

    Ready to Harvest Member

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    How about the Greek "eis aion aion", translated often as "for ever and ever"?

    (Gal 1:5) To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Glory given to God for ever and ever
    (Php 4:20) Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Glory given to God for ever and ever
    (1Ti 1:17) Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. Honor and glory given to God for ever and ever
    (2Ti 4:18) And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Glory given to God for ever and ever
    (Heb 1:8) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. God’s throne for ever and ever
    (Heb 13:21) Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Glory given to Christ for ever and ever
    (1Pe 4:11) If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Praise and dominion to Christ for ever and ever
    (1Pe 5:11) To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Glory and dominion to Christ for ever and ever
    (Rev 1:6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Glory and dominion to Christ for ever and ever
    (Rev 4:9) And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, He that sits on the throne lives for ever and ever
    (Rev 4:10) The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, He that sits on the throne lives for ever and ever
    (Rev 5:13) And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power to him that sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
    (Rev 5:14) And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. He that sits on the throne lives for ever and ever
    (Rev 7:12) Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor and power, and might to God for ever and ever.
    (Rev 10:6) And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: Him that liveth for ever and ever
    (Rev 11:15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Our Lord and His Christ shall reign for ever and ever
    (Rev 14:11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever
    (Rev 15:7) And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. God liveth for ever and ever
    (Rev 19:3) And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
    (Rev 20:10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Devil, beast, and false prophet are tormented day and night for ever and ever
    (Rev 22:5) And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. They shall reign for ever and ever
     
    #18 Ready to Harvest, Oct 1, 2018
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  19. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    The Bible says Jesus did preach to them. Young's Literal Translation ( and many others): "in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach."
     
    #19 Rebel1, Oct 2, 2018
  20. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    The literal translation is: "to the ages of the ages".

    The same term applied to God differs in meaning when applied to others because of the situation and the nature of those involved. When applied to those in hell, it could mean an eternity, if those there refuse to repent and accept correction, based on using their free will. "Age-abiding correction", as is applied to those in hell, is intended by God to be a duration of limited time, for the purpose of correction and restoration. That is the will of God; those there can follow His will by repenting and being liberated from hell, or rebel and stay there as long as they continue to rebel. That's why Jesus went and "preached to the spirits in prison" after His death.
     
    #20 Rebel1, Oct 2, 2018
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