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Alcohol
- Thread starter le bel
- Start date
Terry_Herrington
New Member
I like alcohol, especially in beer!
God's word is clear: drunkenness is a sin. That does not, however, mean that simply consuming alcohol is a sin. I will boldly say that it is not. It becomes a sin when it is abused (aka, drunkenness, addiction, or subjecting oneself to alcoholism).
Christians are permitted to consume alcohol. Christians are not, however, permitted to abuse alcohol and/or get drunk.
I rarely drink. But there will be a bottle of Sutter Home white zinfandel on the Thanksgiving table this November, as there was on the easter table. There was likewise a botle of red wine on the Passover table this past year.
No one said that, and no one espouses that. What is being said is that drinking is permissible. Getting drunk is not.
Bars are fine? Where wordly men and women go to "pick up" oneanother. That behavior doesn't seem quite Godly to me. At what one does one draw the line? Say a group of buddies asks a married man to grap a drink, and this drink is at a bar? Sorry, but things happen as these such places that aren't necessarily spirit lifting. Does one say, "No, I only drink during football and Nascar, or social gatherings." It permits someone to drink, but what are the boundaries? Okay, don't get drunk. Well, it's not like the drinking crowd is all that wholesome.
As a formerly single guy, that's probably a bit of a stereotype. That's like saying the internet is bad because of the personal sites that people use to "pick each other up" on.
Tomorrow evening, my wife and I will be at a local sports bar to watch the World Series. I will probably order a drink with my meal. No abuse, no bad witness, no compromising of scriptural principles.
I believe that is why Paul penned the phrase "let each be convinced [according to] his own mind.
You already said the boundaries: only during football and Nascar or social gatherings. Scripture sets the following boundary: Don't get drunk, and don't abuse the drink. I see no problem here.
The "drinking" crowd I know are all Christians who would never allow themselves to be drunk, or abuse alcohol. So it sounds like just another worldly stereotype to me.
I understand the occasional drinks one may have, but aside from getting drunk, etc., what are the boundaries? Only drink with Godly people as they know the limitations?
For instance, my husband is in the military, drinking is the norm. Although, he has no desire to drink, if it were the other way around and co-workers asked him to drink, what is he expected to do? It's not like every servicemember has virtuous intentions. There's too much open room for making up one's own set of standards. I was under the impression that if you don't want to start an addiction/problem, don't start.
For instance, my husband is in the military, drinking is the norm. Although, he has no desire to drink, if it were the other way around and co-workers asked him to drink, what is he expected to do? It's not like every servicemember has virtuous intentions. There's too much open room for making up one's own set of standards. I was under the impression that if you don't want to start an addiction/problem, don't start.
No you weren't you were being self-righteous. You said "So, going to bars and getting drunk is okay? Hmm, didn't know that", implying that someone said that. No one did. So show a little maturity please. </font>[/QUOTE]Seriously, it was an honest question. I replied to with the "bars" question after the second response. I was expecting a little more than what was said, so I asked. It has nothing to do with being "self-righteous" this is something I've battled with for a while.
As a formerly single guy, that's probably a bit of a stereotype. That's like saying the internet is bad because of the personal sites that people use to "pick each other up" on.
Tomorrow evening, my wife and I will be at a local sports bar to watch the World Series. I will probably order a drink with my meal. No abuse, no bad witness, no compromising of scriptural principles.
I believe that is why Paul penned the phrase "let each be convinced [according to] his own mind.
You already said the boundaries: only during football and Nascar or social gatherings. Scripture sets the following boundary: Don't get drunk, and don't abuse the drink. I see no problem here.
The "drinking" crowd I know are all Christians who would never allow themselves to be drunk, or abuse alcohol. So it sounds like just another worldly stereotype to me. </font>[/QUOTE]Those who I was referring to about the "drinking crowd" are not Christians. I don't know any Christians IRL that do, just those I've spoken to online. It's a bit hard to find Christians who do drink, but with limitations. It's drink to get drunk at clubs, bars and partying, not the ocassional social gathering.
For most people becoming an alcoholic takes effort. If a person knows he has an addictive personality, has suffered from alcoholism, or has relatives who were alcoholic, then complete abstinence is the best choice. Otherwise it is highly unlikely a person will become an alcoholic from having an occasional drink without becoming drunk.
Putting myself in your hypothetical situation, if I knew the people weren't drunks, I was friends with them, and they weren't going anywhere seedy I might go with them. If I knew they habitually went out just to get drunk, I'd pass on it.
Your husband isn't expected by me to do anything other than use common sense.
Then the issue seems not to be the scriptural position, but on a subjective observation of Christians and nonchristians you know. Fair enough.
Is it? I've found no such problem. But I'm also not litmus testing my friends based on whether they've consumed alcohol either. It's just likewise subjective observation on my part that there are Christians who consume alcohol, and do so without it being a sin.
Again, says who? I haven't been to clubs in a while, but in my "clubbin'" days, there were people who drank to get drunk, and people who were just out to enjoy the company of others.
Bars? Again, it seems a bit of a stereotype. A sports bar or restaurant-type bar is by no means consistent with that stereotype.
And partying? Again, says who? I've been to many parties where alcohol wasn't even served.
As in avery case, it all depends on the specific circumstance.
I see that, so do you associate yourself, drinking wise with those who are not Christian? Those of like-minds tend to understand, whereas those who don't, maybe not so much.
I don't know, maybe the lifestyle we live has more pressure to drink, party, etc. It's not just drinking, the environment can also lead to problems.
Again, says who? I haven't been to clubs in a while, but in my "clubbin'" days, there were people who drank to get drunk, and people who were just out to enjoy the company of others.
Bars? Again, it seems a bit of a stereotype. A sports bar or restaurant-type bar is by no means consistent with that stereotype.
And partying? Again, says who? I've been to many parties where alcohol wasn't even served.
As in avery case, it all depends on the specific circumstance. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Again, that is the norm in this lifestyle. It's not just casual drinking, it's drinking with a different purpose. My husband has been asked if he wanted to go out by those who do drink and are not of faith. This is what they do, it's not innocent fun while watching sports.
My reference to partying, drinking, bars, is what I am accustomed to in the military. It's talked about all the time, this is what many do on their spare time, at least those we are familiar with. It's somewhat unheard of for someone not to drink, especially in this lifestyle.
Let each be convinced in his own mind.
That may be, but scripturally, we're permitted to set our own standards in this area. Hence the need for individual spiritual guidance and discernment. Scripture doesn't always do the thinking for us. This is a prime example.
True. Howoever, don't presume that someone who consumes alcohol is starting an addiction/problem. Jesus drank. Jesus also made wine for a wedding feast. Jesus never got drunk or abused the drink.
I don't associate myseolf with someone who will abuse alcohol, Christian or not. But yes, I've had dinner with non-Christians and both of us have consumed, say, a glass of wine with dinner.
There's been pressure to sin since Eve ate the fruit. But as far as "more pressure to drink", maybe, just maybe, that might have been more true in the 80's and 90's, but there is increasing pressure today to be individually responsible. Heck, even the beer ads say "if you drink, drink responsibly" or "if you drink, don't drive" or "give up the keys".