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Alcoholic beverages in Heaven

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by blackbird, Sep 26, 2002.

  1. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I don't for one minute think that the Lord Jesus Christ drank alcoholic wine! He was "holy, harmless, & undefiled".

    I would take that to mean he never got drunk, not that he never drank.

    Let's look at the Bible. Wine is practically a cultural staple in Jesus' time. The bible is repleast with him partaking in meals where we know wine is served. If Jesus did not drink, then it would have been newsworthy, and would have been written recorded by one of the gospel writers.
     
  2. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic <img src=/cc2.jpg>

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    I am back from this silly "obvious extended vacation," and I come graciouly to bat saying the questions you have been asked are legitimate... "Is marriage evil because there is none in heaven?" and the rest of them.

    Another good inquiry concerning this is: Since someone wants to point out "fruit of the vine" does not mean intoxicating wine [though actually it does], since Jesus said He will not drink fruit of the vine until he drinks it with His disciples in the Kingdom, then is fruit of the vine [non-intoxicating, as claimed] also evil?
     
  3. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Hey, Brother 'Cynic!
    Where did you go on your extended vacation?(Laugh, laugh, laugh while I'm slappin' my knee here!) Glad you are back with us! Really and truly!

    Now, you guys want me to be a good sport! OK! As in baseball. I'm on the mound as pitcher. You are up to bat! Randy Johnson is "Little League" compared to ole Blackbird! I'm looking at my catcher to relay signals . . . Good! Both of us want a "Brush Back" pitch--too many batters coming up standing too close to the plate! Now, I ain't gonna hit 'cha with the ball(I have control!) but you will notice as the ball passes close to your jersey--the lettering is "heated up" just a little bit by the ball's friction as it passes toward the catcher's mitt! It'll be headed in your general direction at about 99 miles per hour! It'll take about 1/900th of a second to reach the catcher's mitt!

    Some of you are misunderstanding the question--will there be ALCOHOLIC beverages in GloryLand?? And I say, "No!"

    In Revelation's Chapter 21 verse 27 God's word reads, "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination or maketh a lie: . . ."

    The alcohol content of liquor is actually a defilement of the natural content of the beverage--whether it be grapes, blackberry, corn, hops, barley, etc, etc. I'm sorry, folks! Alcohol will have to "stay out" of GloryLand!

    Alcohol is an intoxicant! It inhibits the mind and prohibits good sound judgment! The root word there is "toxic" thus a form of a poisonous substance. Alcoholic beverages--as weak a poison as it can be--can't be there! In GloryLand there will be nothing there that will inhibit the mind or nothing there to cause us to change or alter our minds in any form or fashion. There will be nothing in GloryLand that will cause us to use any less than good sound judgment!

    In the development of intoxicating beverages there is the process of the breakdown of the beverage's chemical content. I think it is called the "fermentation" period. There will be no breakdowns in GloryLand! No fermentation!

    The alcohol in the fermentated beverage is actually a waste by-product! There will be no waste in GloryLand! Many of you look at the beverage's "Age"--it says on the bottle label something like a date "Nineteen something something something" and you say, "Wow!" this is old stuff--tastes better!" There is no old in GloryLand! Time will go on but in eternity nothing will grow old! Not even the grape beverage I drink in GloryLand will have any age or decay to it! No decayed matter in it whatsoever!

    Human reason will conclude there is no intoxicating beverages in Heaven. Can you imagine the innocent driver whos been killed by another driver under the influence of alcohol reaching the protals of Heaven only to discover that there is more stuff there of the same content that was used to kill him on Earth!? There will be no "AA" in Heaven!

    And speaking of influence--in Heaven there will be absolutely nothing there that will influence me and my decisions other than the Lord Jesus Christ! He will be the only influence in Heaven!

    In the book of Genesis Chapter 9--the Ark that rode Noah and his family around was a picture of Jesus and His Heaven! Even if you scan the verses with your spiritual "X-Ray" machine you will find no mention of Noah under any other influence other than God's influence while he was aboard that Ark. It was only afterward--after Noah disembarked from the Ark that he "began to be" a keeper of the grapes! On board the Ark--no influence upon Noah's mind other than God's! He had nothing but the Ark on his mind! The Ark was in total control of Noah! Once outside--Noah was still subject to corruption and defilement! He made some Grape juice--and something went "Hey-wire!" Ever so slowly--his mind became something that didn't "use to be" while he was aboard the Ark! He was influenced by something other than the Ark! One of his boys mocked! Two of his boys walked backward toward Noah! Had that blanket in their hands! "Gotta cover Daddy's shame!"

    In Heaven--there is no other influence other than the Lord Jesus Christ. There is room in no person's mind for anything or anyone else other than Him! In Heaven--the Lord Jesus Christ will have total and absolute control. No other controlling person or thing other than the Lord Jesus Christ!

    In Heaven--there is no mocking! The book of Proverbs says that wine is a mocker! A "mock" is an echo of the real thing! There will be no echos in Heaven! Everything will be in rhythem and in harmony! Nothing there that will echo or mock Jesus' mind!

    In Heaven--there will be no walking backward. All feet in Heaven will face the throne! Nobody will have to turn a head to hide any sort of shame! Nobody will have to "cover Daddy!" No heads will have to be turned in Heaven. All faces will face the face of Jesus! No man made labels we can face! No date on the wine! You will discover that Jesus IS the WINE of Heaven!! No corruption in His Wine! Its Him that I want and He won't be in a bottle but on a throne! No defilement in His Mind! No blankets to cover anything! No shame! No ruin! No busted up homes! No car wrecks! No battered mom! No whipped child! No influence of alcohol! Only Jesus' influence! While eternity rolls on--all defilement, mocking, deceivement, decay will have to "stay outside!"

    Now, the Catcher has just received the burning ball! It was a "Brush Back" pitch! You are looking at the Umpire--wanting him to call some sort of "Unsportsman-like Conduct" call on me. But you didn't notice that you were standing so close to the plate that Blackbird actually threw a strike--hitting the inside corner of the plate while brushing you back at the same time-- while still being judged by the Umpire a "Strike!" The Umpire and my catcher have a grin on their faces and they can honestly look at you and say, "Golly! Ole Blackbird CAN throw a strike!"

    I'm a good sport! I love you all!
    Blackbird
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Dear blackbird,

    So what's the point?
    Flesh and blood will not enter either.
    We are presently in the here and now.

    1 Timothy 5:
    23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

    There is really only one reason to abstain from alcoholic beverages... (IMO, of course)

    Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
    21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

    God's word calls wine "pure".

    It's our lack of love and concern for our brethren not the wine that is evil.

    HankD

    [ September 30, 2002, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
  5. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Brother HankD!

    You're standing too close to the plate, man!

    My point is not what we are doing on earth--outside of the realm of GloryLand--Heaven! I know that on this side of Heaven there will be that indulgance of those intoxicating beverages! I know that! I can't control what others do on Earth!

    My point is--and my question is--will the alcoholic beverages "follow us" into GloryLand? Or will the junk of the earth be left behind!

    And yes, my resurrected flesh will one day be in GloryLand--no blood, of course. You see, on Earth it is the blood that gives life. In Heaven, there will be no blood in human veins--because in Heaven--it will be Jesus who gives life!

    A good lawyer can rephrase the question without loosing the questions content--will your beer, wine, whiskey, wine cooler, etc. follow you into heaven? Will there be alcoholic beverages in Heaven?

    Stand away from the plate a "wee-tad!" keep your chin up, eyes on what the pitcher has in his right hand, eyes open when the pitch is hurled your way! I'll throw the same pitch I did in the post above--an "inside and away!" Here it comes! You have 1/1000th of a second to make your mind up whether you want to swing or not! Hear the whistle of the ball yet?!!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  6. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Suppose for the sake of argument the answer was "no". What then?

    Will baseball "follow us" into Gloryland?

    [ September 30, 2002, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]
     
  7. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    BrianT,

    Hey, man! I'm just tryin' to be a good sport! I just wanted all of us to get our spiritual microscopes out and examine "under the lense" the future of intoxicating beverages. Seems like where I'm headed and were you are headed that there seems to be no future for the stuff. So, for me--it seems that intoxicating beverages would be a very, very bad investment.

    My point was my point! When Noah got off the Ark--he picked the practice up! When me and you reach the future "Ark" we are going to lay the practice down! Amen??! So "toxic" is intoxicating beverages that it cannot be reproduced in GloryLand! True, true, true that there are some things on Earth that will follow us into Glory! Our names, our family, etc. Intoxicating beverages just won't be one of 'em!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  8. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Why? :confused: :confused: :confused:

    Why wine and not shotguns or baseball gloves?

    Edit: or doughnuts? [​IMG]

    [ September 30, 2002, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]
     
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    WHAT! No donuts, no krispee Kreme?

    No coffee either.

    But Jesus will be there :D

    BTW blackbird, I do abstain, but not because I believe alcohol is evil.

    Matthew 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
    17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
    18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

    Romans 14:
    14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
    15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
    ...
    20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
    21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

    HankD

    [ October 01, 2002, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
  10. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    Brian please take some windex and clean your mirror, everytime someone says wine or alcohol you say donuts. Is this one of those inkblot tests or something.
    Murph
     
  11. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    In scripture, accusations of drunkeness are coupled with accusations of gluttony. Why can you only recognize one and not the other?

    [ September 30, 2002, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]
     
  12. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    But,. . . but,. . . but HankD!!

    Alcohol IS evil! Its a toxin, friend! A by-product of a good thing turned evil. Its not the wine juice(grape juice) itself that brings the harm and influence on the mind--its the alcohol content. And yes, grape juice will be in Heaven--I believe that with all my heart--but I also believe with all my heart that it will be un-fermented, non-alcoholic, non-toxicating. Check it out, dude! Nothing in Heaven to influence us any other way--but Jesus! Jesus is Heaven's only influence!!

    And listen, I won't get so upset that there are intoxicating beverages here on Earth and that the good majority of good Baptist whether they be Southern Baptist, Fundamental Independent or whoever will indulge--if you promise me you won't get upset because there won't be any intoxicating beverages in GloryLand! OK?! Pal??! SOOOOOO! To prove my point--every citizen in Heaven WILL be TEE-TOTTERS!!!! I know it sounds strange to you guys--but Blackbird is convinced that you will learn to get use to it!

    Always your friend!
    Blackbird
     
  13. stubbornkelly

    stubbornkelly New Member

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    Blackbird, you make it sound as though those of us who do partake of alcohol have a vice of some sort. Telling us that we will "get use[d] to it"? I don't understand what you're trying to tell us. What would be the big deal if there wasn't alcohol in Heaven? Do you honestly think any of us would be upset by that? It's really not a concern of mine.

    You say that alcohol is evil, but most of the times you say or imply that, you're implying that having a drink = drunkenness, which is simply untrue. Please, without any of your lovely little euphemisms and analogies [​IMG] , tell me if you think that having a drink = drunkenness.

    If it does, then there's a completely different debate to be had. If it does not, then I really don't understand all the fuss.
     
  14. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic <img src=/cc2.jpg>

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    Blackbird, you make a heap of unsubstantiated remarks, especially about heaven... I say this very graaaaaciously, of course.... If there's a book in the Bible that tells us what it's really gonna be like in heaven, particularly in regard to menu (I Corinthians 6:13 notwithstanding), let us in on it. And are you really talking about "heaven" or the new earth (Revelation 21). On one hand, you try to appear as if you have some special revelation about what is in 'heaven,' then on the other you want anyone who responds to 'stick to the point,' and you do not answer when asked if marriage is evil because there is none in 'heaven.' If you really had such knowledge as to the 'in' and 'out' lists of heaven, you wouldn't mind answering. If you don't, expect to keep on getting blasted.

    [ September 30, 2002, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: ChristianCynic ]
     
  15. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Brother 'Cynic!

    Glad you are back--you haven't come forward with those cash tickets, hotel receipts, and gasoline purchase proofs on vacation(how was Gatlinburg?!! HA! You kill me, you really do!!) like I really, really expected you to--but . . . that's a whole different ballgame--and I look one day to be in the penality box myself(as in hockey!) for distortion of folks' names and mental persuasions!!

    The running issue on the BB roster lately has been such items as Was Wine Alcoholic in Jesus' Day?"--and I can answer that question with a question--Is the Pope Catholic? Do bees buzz?

    My aim was never to prove where alcohol IS--I know where it IS!! My aim was to prove where alcohol ISN'T!! That is my big beef!! I ain't got nothin' against folks who do indulge--I wouldn't hesitate in a minute to give or risk my life for a drinking person!

    When I was in my teens--my dad worked for the phone company which had a contract to do phone work for the LSU Tigers during game time!! He'd always get passes to the game for myself, my brother, and friends. We were all Tee-toters--including my dad! But we'd go to those games and see folks there--yuk!! Some have way too much to drink. Two guys go to tusslin' with each other after one of the games one time and started chasin' each other around my dad's phone company van--throwin' each other around like they were WWF wrestlers! Before my brother and I realized--they had completely ripped the outside rearview mirrors off the van, their wives(or girlfriends) were trying to break them up--eyeglasses were flyin' all over! Anyway, they finally settled down and all got in the same car together and drove off--leaving my brother and I there! Our dad comes out of the building--sees the "ill-will" done to his van--and commences to quizzin' my brother and I--"What happened to my truck!!Mercy sakes!" Oh, the tangled web we do weave!

    But no! I ain't after you to stop--I wish you would! I wish I could talk you and StubbornKelly, BrianT, and HankD, Helen, etc. would stop drinking--but, shoot, you know as well as I do--anything I can talk you out of--someone else can come along and talk you into!

    So many of the board folks were bent on Jesus' drinkin'--socializin' etc.--that I was just trying to prove that all of that stuff will one day come to a screetchin' halt--there at the Pearly Gates!! Just like Festus would tell the citizens of Dodge--"Check your firearms in here!"--all alcoholic content beverages will have a STOP sign just outside the city limits of Glory!

    Your friend always,
    Blackbird
     
  16. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Not that I agree, but you never did answer why that would be significant, ie. why you even started this thread in the first place. Beside the fact that you offer no evidence but only some secret knowledge aquired from who knows where, suppose you are right - what is your point? Do you even have a point?
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    A little bird told me that blackbird is just trying to see how many posts he can milk (or should I say squeeze, wine you know) out of this logical convolution.

    Actually bb I won't miss anything since I abstain now. But coffee, what will I do without my coffee?

    HankD
     
  18. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Brother HankD!
    I ain't trying to "milk" anything--although I have milked a few real Holstein's in the dairy parlor in my younger day!!

    But if I do want to milk the BB--why, I'd just start a topic on "Tongues" and Homosqueers. Those topics will go on, stretching "to infinity and beyond!!" So much so BB will need a computer with about a zillion gig-a-bites, surrounded by fans/airconditioners to cool the blessed thing down just to store all of the practically worthless information! I mean, people post on that thing so fast--I'm surprised the friction hasn't caused it to burst into flames!

    No, I ain't milking! In fact, all of the Momma Cows are finished in the parlor and are now out for their evening graze! But keep in mind--the Momma cows will be "hollerin'" to be milked at about 3am this next morning!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    38 posts and counting.

    We had 2 Guernseys when we had a farm in Maine:Dummy and her daughter Buttercup.

    They gave 1/2 and 1/2.

    No wine though.

    HankD
     
  20. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    So there will be grapevines in heaven? With grapes? I like the seedless kind.

    Brother Dallas
     
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