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Featured All things work together for good...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Feb 4, 2023.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, your translation is wrong.
     
    #101 AustinC, Feb 9, 2023
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  2. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Romans 8:28

    We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him. He appointed them to be saved in keeping with his purpose (NIrV)
     
    #102 RipponRedeaux, Feb 9, 2023
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What might be the grammatically indicated substantive being modified or described by the "nominative singular neuter" adjective "all." The spiritual mindedness of the ones loving God!! What aspect of that "spiritual mindedness?" Their trust and devotion for God!!!

    Romans 8:28 (Interpretive translation)
    "And we see that to the ones loving God, all their trust and devotion is working together for good, for the ones being called according to His purpose."

    Here "their trust and devotion" has been added to clarify the scope of the word "all" in the verse.

    The concept that sin accomplishes good is a fiction and a destructive heresy in my opinion. Paul would say, "God forbid."

    Clearly when we ask the question, "to what are "all these" referring?" The answer is to the aspects of their love of God. And those are trust and devotion. And what good is said to come from these? They are being called into God's kingdom according to God's purpose!!!

    Thus once again traditional but ambiguous translation allows speculators to manufacture false doctrine.

    This view meshes with James 2:5 which teaches God chooses those who love God

    James 2:5 (Interpretive translation)
    Listen, my beloved siblings in Christ, did God not choose the poor to this world yet rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? ​
     
    #103 Van, Feb 10, 2023
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, Do you not know that the words "things God works" are not in the inspired text, thus an addition to alter the message? Or that they are being called in the present, not were appointed in the past?

    Romans 8:28 (Interpretive translation)
    "And we are aware that to the ones loving God, all their trust and devotion is working together for good, for the ones being called according to His purpose."
     
    #104 Van, Feb 10, 2023
  5. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    God employs all things for the benefit of the group known as the elect, called and predestined. 'Things' are not abstract notions unrelated to God --that's absurd.

    The words 'trust' and 'devotion' are not in the original. Why did you add them to the text?
     
    #105 RipponRedeaux, Feb 10, 2023
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, your translation is wrong.
     
    #106 AustinC, Feb 10, 2023
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  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What might be the grammatically indicated substantive being modified or described by the "nominative singular neuter" adjective "all." The spiritual mindedness of the ones loving God!! What aspect of that "spiritual mindedness?" Their trust and devotion for God!!!

    Romans 8:28 (Interpretive translation)
    "And we see that to the ones loving God, all their trust and devotion is working together for good, for the ones being called according to His purpose."

    Here "their trust and devotion" has been added to clarify the scope of the word "all" in the verse.

    The concept that sin accomplishes good is a fiction and a destructive heresy in my opinion. Paul would say, "God forbid."

    Clearly when we ask the question, "to what are "all these" referring?" The answer is to the aspects of their love of God. And those are trust and devotion. And what good is said to come from these? They are being called into God's kingdom according to God's purpose!!!

    Thus once again traditional but ambiguous translation allows speculators to manufacture false doctrine.

    This view meshes with James 2:5 which teaches God chooses those who love God

    James 2:5 (Interpretive translation)
    Listen, my beloved siblings in Christ, did God not choose the poor to this world yet rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? ​
     
    #107 Van, Feb 10, 2023
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The word "things" is not in the actual text of Romans 8:28, it just reads "... to the ones loving God, all is working together for God for the ones being called according to His purpose.

    God's word requires that the reader discern the scope of "all" by evaluating the context, which is that those loving God are being called into His kingdom.
     
    #108 Van, Feb 10, 2023
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, your translation is wrong.
     
    #109 AustinC, Feb 10, 2023
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What might be the grammatically indicated substantive being modified or described by the "nominative singular neuter" adjective "all." The spiritual mindedness of the ones loving God!! What aspect of that "spiritual mindedness?" Their trust and devotion for God!!!

    Romans 8:28 (Interpretive translation)
    "And we see that to the ones loving God, all their trust and devotion is working together for good, for the ones being called according to His purpose."

    Here "their trust and devotion" has been added to clarify the scope of the word "all" in the verse.

    The concept that sin accomplishes good is a fiction and a destructive heresy in my opinion. Paul would say, "God forbid."

    Clearly when we ask the question, "to what are "all these" referring?" The answer is to the aspects of their love of God. And those are trust and devotion. And what good is said to come from these? They are being called into God's kingdom according to God's purpose!!!

    Thus once again traditional but ambiguous translation allows speculators to manufacture false doctrine.

    This view meshes with James 2:5 which teaches God chooses those who love God

    James 2:5 (Interpretive translation)
    Listen, my beloved siblings in Christ, did God not choose the poor to this world yet rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? ​
     
    #110 Van, Feb 10, 2023
  11. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    You added the word 'rich' with no justification. The adverb is not necessary.

    The word 'siblings' is ugly. "My dear brothers and sisters" is much better. "Has not God chosen" is better English than the awkward "did God not choose."
     
    #111 RipponRedeaux, Feb 10, 2023
  12. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Don't get lost in your ungrammatical word salad Van.
     
    #112 RipponRedeaux, Feb 10, 2023
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  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, your translation is wrong.
     
    #113 AustinC, Feb 10, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    I mistakenly cited the word 'rich' --I meant 'yet.'
     
    #114 RipponRedeaux, Feb 11, 2023
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Romans 8:28 (Interpretive translation)
    "And we see that to the ones loving God, all their trust and devotion is working together for good, for the ones being called according to His purpose."

    James 2:5 (Interpretive translation)
    Listen, my beloved siblings in Christ, did God not choose the poor to this world yet rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

    Over and over again scripture teaches God elects for salvation based on the individuals love for God and faith in the truth. Abraham believed God's promises and thus God credited His faith as righteousness.

    Look at Hebrews 11, and the OT Saints who "gained approval" by faith which God credited as righteous faith. See Romans 4:3.
     
    #115 Van, Feb 11, 2023
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, your translation is wrong.
     
    #116 AustinC, Feb 11, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Romans 8:28 (Interpretive translation)
    "And we see that to the ones loving God, all their trust and devotion is working together for good, for the ones being called according to His purpose."

    James 2:5 (Interpretive translation)
    Listen, my beloved siblings in Christ, did God not choose the poor to this world yet rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

    Over and over again scripture teaches God elects for salvation based on the individuals love for God and faith in the truth. Abraham believed God's promises and thus God credited His faith as righteousness.

    Look at Hebrews 11, and the OT Saints who "gained approval" by faith which God credited as righteous faith. See Romans 4:3

    Romans 4:3
    For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT (His faith) WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
     
    #117 Van, Feb 12, 2023
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, your translation is wrong.
     
    #118 AustinC, Feb 12, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Van, your interpretive translation is removing the passage from its context. The whole of Romans 8 is to give comfort to Christians suffering persecution for the cause of Christ, even as they are being led by the Spirit of God as children of God.

    The idea that “your trust and devotion are working together for good….” Offers no comfort to Christians being persecuted because it focuses on themselves. Despite their trust and devotion, indeed BECAUSE of their trust and devotion, they are suffering.

    On the other hand, since God is causing all things to work together for good… these Christians have comfort that God is in control and no amount of persecution will separate them from the love of Christ.

    Your translation cannot be supported in context.

    peace to you
     
    #119 canadyjd, Feb 12, 2023
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  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Every harassment post like this hangs your sign around your neck, and it reads "Truth is my Enemy."
     
    #120 Van, Feb 13, 2023
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