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Amos 4:4 - more of James White's hypocrisy

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Will J. Kinney, Feb 16, 2004.

  1. Will J. Kinney

    Will J. Kinney New Member

    May 15, 2001
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    Amos 4:4 After Three Years or Three Days?

    I have read James White's book, The King James Only Controversy, three or four times and have found many inconsistencies, lies and hypocrisy on his part.

    Regarding Amos 4:4 Mr. White writes on page 232: "At times the KJV attempts to get around difficulties, so to speak. For example, at Amos 4:4 the KJV renders the Hebrew phrase "three days" as "three years", ostensibly so that the pasage would remain in accordance with Jewish law, which required the gathering of certain of the tithes each three years. Interestingly enough, the NIV also chose to translate the "three days" as "three years", probably for the same reason. While it may be possible that both the KJV and the NIV are correct in their understanding of this passage, the point should be made that neither is strictly translating the text. Both are engaging in a certain amount of interpretation at this point. Given the tremendously strong language that has been used by KJV Only advocates against such translations as the NIV for doing that very thing, we see here another example where the KJV itself makes the KJV Only position self-contradictory and inconsistent."

    Mr. White now works for the NASB committee, so his bias is towards this particular version. However, let's look at the provable facts.

    First of all not only does the KJB say "bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after THREE YEARS" but so do the NIV, as pointed out by Mr.White, and the Spanish Reina Valera of 1579 and 1909, the Bishop's Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1599, Youngs "literal" translation, Websters 1833 translation, the Third Millenium Bible, Green's Modern KJV, the Modern Greek Version, and the 21st Century KJV. The NKJV and the NASB say every three DAYS instead of three "years".

    Now it is interesting that a man who works for the NASB translation committee, as Mr. James White does, would accuse the KJB of not being as literal as the NASB. The KJB does give the correct meaning of every three years because this corresponds to what is clearly taught in Deuteronomy 14:28 "At the end of three YEARS thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates".

    When we look up what the Hebrew word is we find that it is yohm. This word is usually translated as "day", but not by any means is it always so translated. We find that the KJB has translated this word 15 times as "year". Now if the NASB is more literal than the KJB, why then did the NASB translators themselves render this same Hebrew word yohm as "years" not just 15 times as the KJB, but 29 times as "years" or "yearly" - almost twice as often? The NIV likewise has it as "years" some 25 times and 65 times they have not translated it at all.

    Some examples of where the NASB and KJB have yohm as years are Exodus 13:10 when speaking of the yearly Passover: "Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from YEAR TO YEAR." (yohm to yohm)

    In Numbers 9:22 the children of Israel journeyed when the cloud was taken up "whether it were two days (yohm) or a month, or a year" (yohm).

    In 1 Samuel 2:19 speaking of Samuel: "Morover his mother made him a little coat, and brought it to him from YEAR TO YEAR" (yohm to yohm); see also 1:3, 21; 20:6; and 2 Samuel 14:26 speaking of Absalom: "And when he polled his head,(for it was at every YEAR'S end that he polled it) he weighed the hair of his head..." and in 2 Cronicles 21:19 speaking of the wicked king Jehoram whom the LORD smote in his bowels with an incurable disease: "And it came to pass, that in process of time, after the end of two YEARS, his bowels fell out by reason of his sickness".

    Not only has the "more literal" NASB translated the word yohm as years almost twice as often as the KJB, but it also has "literally" translated this same Hebrew word as: "afternoon, age, always, battle, birthday, Chronicles, continually, course of time, daylight, each, entire, eternity, evening, ever, fate, first, forever, full, life, long, now, older, once, period, perpetually, present, recently, reigns, ripe age, short-lived, so long, some time, survived, time, usual, very old, when, while, whole and yesterday" How is that for being more literal than the KJB?!

    In the New Testament the NASB has also three times rendered the Greek word hemera, or day, as YEAR. See Luke 1:7,18 and 2:36.

    Those King James Bible critics who mention how the NASB is more literal than the KJB, would be wise to refrain from mentioning the good Doctor White's example of Amos 4:4 as being an instance of such "getting around the difficulties, so to speak".

    Will Kinney

      Another example of James White's hypocrisy

       In the ninth chapter, which is titled "Problems in the KJV", on page 231 Mr. White states: "Jack Lewis notes that the KJV is also well known for the large variety of ways in which it will translate the same word. Now certainly there are many times when one will wish to use synonyms to translate particular terms, and context is vitally important indetermining the actual meaning of a word, but the KJV goes beyond the bounds a number of times. For example, the Hebrew term for "word" or "thing" is rendered by EIGHTY FOUR different English words in the KJV!

    Another term, "to turn back" is rendered in one particular grammatical form by SIXTY different English words! Those who have attempted to follow the usage of a particular Hebrew or Greek term through the AV know how difficult such a task can be, and the inconsistency of the KJV in translating terms only makes the job that much harder." End of quote.

    Most people who read this in Mr. White's book would think something like: "Oh, that nasty KJV. What a lousy translation it is and how unscholarly. Why would anybody want to use that?"

    Most people would never take the time to verify if there is any validity to what Mr. White says here; they would just accept his statements as facts. The word for "word" or "thing" is # 1697 Dabar. I only counted 78 different meanings found in the KJB, but I'll give Mr. White the benefit of the doubt and let him have his 84.

    James White now works for the New American Standard Bible organization. He knows both Hebrew and Greek and professes to be an expert in textual matters. He either didn't check the validity of the claims of Jack Lewis, or he is deliberately misrepresenting the facts to bolster his attacks on God's preserved words in the King James Bible. In either case, his hypocricy is inexcusable.

    A simple look at the complete NASB concordance shows that the NASB has translated this single word Dabar in at least NINETY THREE very different ways while the NIV has over 200 different English meanings for this single Hebrew word.

    Among the 94 different English words the NASB uses to translate this single Hebrew word are: account, act, advice, affair, agreement, amount, annals, answer, anything, asked, because, business, case, cause, charge, Chronicles, claims, commandment, compliments, concerned, conclusion, conditions, conduct, conferred, consultation, conversation, counsel, custom, dealings, decree, deed, defect, desires, dispute, doings, duty, edict, eloquent, event, fulfillment, harm, idea, instructed, manner, matter, message, nothing, oath, obligations, one, order, parts, pertains, plan, plot, portion, promise, proposal, proven, purpose, question, ration, reason, records, regard, reports, request, required, rule, said, same thing, saying, so much, some, something, songs, speaks, speech,talk, task, theme, thing, this, thoughts, threats, thus, told, trouble, verdict, way, what, whatever, word and work.

    As I said, the NIV has over twice this amount of different meanings - well over 200 - as compared to the KJB's 84.

    The second word mentioned by Mr. White is "to turn back" and it is # 7725 Shub, and in this case Mr. White is correct in that the KJB does translate it some 60 different ways. However what James forgot to mention is that his favorite NASB has translated this same single Hebrew word at least 104 different ways! while the NIV again has over 200 different meanings!

    This is the type of scholarship men like James White employ to discredit the truth of the King James Bible.

    Will Kinney
  2. Pastor KevinR

    Pastor KevinR New Member

    May 21, 2001
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    Bro Will, I will not attempt to discredit you nor Bro White. But I urge you to be careful about defaming his character, his alleged hypocrisy, etc. Of course if you feel he's inconsistent, inaccurate, by all means prove that. It appears to me, and I hope I'm wrong, that you see Bro White's book as a blatant conspiracy against the KJV. It may or may not be a book inadvertently promoting the NASV or NIV; and he does not like KJVO movement, as I've read the book three times as well. On the thread that I started entitled "Alleged Double Standard of KJVO's" I and others listed what we believe as inconsistencies, double standards, etc of your persuasion regarding this issue, but you'd never catch me defaming your character. I know you love God's Word, it's obvious by how passionate you write about it here and elsewhere, but I for one would not say you are lying, or call you a hypocrite. I and others have simply reached a different conclusion than you, and as you know I used to believe that the only translation for the English speaking world was the KJV, but I have come to see things differently, and I have perfect peace with God regarding the matter, as I'm sure you do as well. Again Bro Will, proving Bro White to be inconsistent or inaccurate is one thing, but please to not rip his character.
    PS- Have you heard or read of the book entitled, "Unbound Scriptures" by Rick Norris? I've read it a couple of times a really enjoyed it. Admittedly it's not pro-KJVO, and the book stays away from the textual matter.
    Thank you and have a nice day! :cool:
  3. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Apr 25, 2001
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    The post that follows demonstrates nothing of the sort. In fact, it demonstrates that you are guilty of what you accuse him of.

    You are the one who introduces the NASB rather than dealing with the subject of the quote you give. Here is the relevant part:
    He didn't say that either version is wrong. Neither was that his intent. His intent was to show that KJVOnlyism is "self-contradictory and inconsistent"... in our words, dependent on applying double standards.

    Here is a provable fact for you: White consulted with Lockman on the NASB but he was not nor did he ever claim to be the final/chief editor. Here's another: You introduced the NASB, he didn't. He never claimed that the NASB was a perfect translation much less that its translating of this particular word was always correct.

    It is not his "inconsistencies, lies and hypocrisy" that are apparent from your treatment of this quote... it is yours.

    So what your saying is that it is legitimate to translate the word as "years" but only when it agrees with the KJV or at least the same number of times? :rolleyes:

    This is hardly a demonstration of inconsistency on the part of White.

    And because your posts are so verbose, few people ever take the time to check you out either.

    Please provide proof that a) this is an on-going relationship rather than a periodic consulting role and b) that his judgment concerning that translation is jaded by the relationship.
    Or you are deliberately misrepresenting the facts in an effort to defend your false belief.