1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

An NASB issue.

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Apr 30, 2022.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,097
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 10:10, ". . . for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. . . ."

    So what if Acts of the Apostles 2:38, ". . . Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ | resulting | the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. . . ." Instead of ". . . for . . . ."
     
  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,502
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Dictionary.com
    What are other ways to say “for”?
    The conjunction for introduces reason, proof, or justification for an occurrence or action, but it does so as if the reason were an afterthought or a parenthetical statement: I was famished, for I had not eaten all day. Because introduces a direct reason: I was sleeping because I was tired. As and since are so casual as to imply merely circumstances attendant on the main statement: As (or since) I was tired, I was sleeping. The more formal inasmuch as implies concession; the main statement is true in view of the circumstances introduced by this conjunction: Inasmuch as I was tired, it seemed best to sleep.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,097
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The issue is the translation of the Greek preposition . . . εις . . . . That it means "into," but never has the meaning "in order to."
     
  4. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,502
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Faith:
    Baptist
    :Cautious Are you using Strong's Concordance as a lexicon?

    I’m not sure you get the point that Paul is communicating.
    The different translational choice you mention doesn’t change Paul’s message.

    Paul is saying righteousness is by faith, (rather than by law) and that it is near to us, not far away (vs. 6-8a).

    "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching"

    9 (note 1)that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
    (note 1 - or because)

    10
    for with the heart a person believes, (note 1)resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, (note 2)resulting in salvation.
    (note 1 - lit to righteousness)
    (note 2 - lit to salvation)
    (NASB 10:8-10 - emphasis mine)​

    Paul preaches a simple gospel here.


    Definitions: ENGLISH
    result
    noun
    1 a consequence, effect, or outcome.
    ▶ (also results) a satisfactory outcome: persistence guarantees results.
    (snip)
    verb occur or follow as a result.
    (result in) have (a specified end or outcome).

    in
    preposition
    1
    expressing the situation of being enclosed or surrounded by something.
    2 expressing motion that results in being within or surrounded by something.
    5 expressing a state, condition, or quality.
    6 expressing inclusion or involvement.
    Catherine Soanes and Angus Stevenson, eds., Concise Oxford English Dictionary (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2004).​

    Definitions: GREEK (εἰς is a rather simple word with a great variety of applications)
    εἰς prep. w. acc. (snip)... indicating motion into a thing or into its immediate vicinity or relation to something.
    William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 288–291.​

    Consecutive and final εἰς.
    The preposition denotes the direction of an action to a specific end. Whether this is incidental or intentional must be deduced from the context and is not always clear.
    a. With the subst. or pronomin, acc. it usually has a final sense. This usage, resting on spatial ideas, is linked with → D. 2., as may be seen from a comparison between καλεῖν εἰς μετάνοιαν (Lk. 5:32, also εἰς κοινωνίαν, 1 C. 1:9 and εἰς δόξαν 1 Pt. 5:10) and βαπτίζειν εἰς μετάνοιαν (Mt. 3:11). The final force of increases to the degree that the associated prepositional expression becomes an independent adverbial definition. (snip...)
    Yet in other cases there is an undoubted consecutive use.
    1 C. 11:17: οὐκ εἰς τὸ κρεῖσσον ἀλλὰ εἰς τὸ ἧσσον συνέρχεσθε is not so much criticising the purpose as the actual result. Similarly in 11:34 the meaning is not so much that the Corinthians might have aimed at judgment as that their conduct could have the actual result of judgment (ἵνα μὴ εἰς κρίμα συνέρχησθε). Further examples are Rev. 13:3: ἐσφαγμένην εἰς θάνατον; 2 C. 8:2: εἰς τὸ πλοῦτος τῆς ἁπλότητος αὐτῶν, “so that there was a rich access of liberality”; Col. 1:11: δυναμούμενοι εἰς πᾶσαν ὑπομονήν; 2 C. 7:9 f.: ἐλυπήθητε εἰς μετάνοιαν, μετάνοια εἰς σωτηρίαν; R. 10:10: εἰς δικαιοσύνην—εἰς σωτηρίαν; R. 13:4: σοὶ εἰς τὸ ἀγαθόν. The antitheses of R. 5:16, 18, 21; 6:16, 21, which are denoted by the use of εἰς, are goals rather than consequences, and there is a strong final element in R. 6:19. Cf. also R. 3:7; 8:15, 21, 28; 13:14; 2 C. 9:11. In R. 7:10 there is an instructive fusion of both elements.
    Albrecht Oepke, “Εἰς,” ed. Gerhard Kittel, Geoffrey W. Bromiley, and Gerhard Friedrich, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1964–), 429.​

    Hope this helps.

    Rob
     
    #4 Deacon, May 1, 2022
    Last edited: May 1, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,097
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Confession with the mouth is a work. Acts of the Apostles 2:38, the baptism is a work. Neither work are to be interpreted as necessary in order to be saved. So my objection is that it is neither work which is toward salvation are what causes to result in salvation. I have no objections to those works towards salvation. . . . εις . . . .
     
  6. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,502
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your posts are so hard for me to interpret.

    Paul defines what he means in verse 10:
    ...the heart is an indicator of what one believes,
    ...the mouth is an indicator of what one confesses,

    neither are works, they are indicators.
    Baptism is an outward expression of both.

    Rob
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,502
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul is providing a commentary on Deuteronomy 30.
    Moses writes of righteousness based upon the Law.

    But then here Moses describes, "things to come..."

    ...the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the hearts of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul, so that you may live. 7 And the Lord your God will inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. 8 And you will again obey the Lord, and follow all His commandments which I am commanding you today. 9 Then the Lord your God will prosper you abundantly in every work of your hand, in the children of your womb, the offspring of your cattle, and in the produce of your ground, for the Lord will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers; 10 if you obey the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and soul.

    11 “For this commandment which I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it far away. 12 It is not in heaven, that you could say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and get it for us, and proclaim it to us, so that we may follow it?’ 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you could say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us and get it for us and proclaim it to us, so that we may follow it?’ 14 On the contrary, the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may follow it.
    Deuteronomy 30:6–14 NASB​

    Rob
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,097
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We disagree. I know confession with the mouth is a work beyond one's mere belief. And Romans 10:9-10 is the only place in the New Testament where this work is in addition to one's belief. Only the act of belief is taught not to be a work, Romans 4:4-5.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,097
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Wow. I missed a problem.
    KJV, 2 Timothy 3:16, ". . . All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: . . ." Notice ". . . scripture is given . . . ." The "is" is in italics indicating the word is added to the translation.

    The NASB has the added "is" not in italics. Following the RSV.
     
Loading...