...and your house...

Yes, Adam had taught it, Noah had taught it and I believe Noah (I'll have to check) was still living when the dispersion took place.

 

The promise went thru David, look at the language of luke 1 and 2..

Gentiles with a few exceptions[ruth,rahab,etc] were outside the kingdom,until
the NT time.
The angelic messengers knew of God's covenant redemption,and how it was being unfolded as the Holy Spirit spoke through the NT prophets.

 

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Christ was promised here, Christ heal was bruised at the cross but with the Cross satan head was brusied and actually crushed. This was the promise to mankind of a Saviour after the fall.

Gen 3: 21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Gpd instituted animal sacrifice. Not just as coats of skin but as a covering for sin. Adam passed this down to his sons as seen:

Genesis 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Abram was called out from amoung the gentiles to make a people from which the Nations would be blessed by the Saviour to be given. The line of Messiah was promised to Abraham and later to David, but first and foremost He was promised through Adam and Eve.

4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Cain and Abel were taught by Adam to sacrifice to God. Cain chose not to give the required sacrifice and murdered his brother.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Why did Noah find grace because he had faith in the saviour who was coming and he continued to sacrifice to God as God promised.

Then came Abram out from ampung the gentiles, Abram who worshipped the true God that he had been told about by his fathers. From Him would the Saviour promised to Adam and Eve come and all nations would be blessed by Abrams seed.

 

Going back to the ages given Abram would have been 58 years old when Noah died. Looking for the saviour would have been passed directly from Noah to Abram and Abram believed it and God called Him out from amoung the nations.

 

Luke 12:51-53. 'Do you suppose that I came to gove peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. For from now on, five in one house will be divided; three against two, and two against three. Father will be divided against son and son, and son against father.....etc.'

Steve

 

Revmac,
God told Noah how to build the Ark.It was big enough for all the animals,and Noah and His family. What about the multitudes who perished in the flood?
Where would they have fit? It was not designed for the whole world of the ungodly.

 

God knew the hearts of those ungodly men and God knew they would reject the message. Doesn't mean they couldn't but since God knew what choice they would make, the Ark was prepared as it was. My question is did it contain room for just one more? There were two others alive that I believe were Godly at the time and yet they didn't make it to the Ark. Lamech was alive for many of the years it was beinng built and Methuselah died the year as the flood. So for many of the years of the building of the Ark two others who should have been righteous were in fact alive and possibly helping in the building and should have been as vocal As Naoh.

Now if you God didn't deal with man until Abraham then we have a problem in our world today, God can't be dealing with us. For as most agree it is getting close to the return of Christ. Here are Christ words about that time,

Matthew 24: 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Luke 17: 26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

As it was in the days of Noah so shall it be in days of Christ return to set up His Kingdom. If God wasn't dealing to save them then if God had abandon them until He callled out Abraham then so it should be now. But we have the word and God is dealing with people.

The writer of Hebrews:

Hebrews 11: 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

With faith Noah built the Ark and it was a constant testimony to all that God was going to judge them.

Then Peter the rock wrote:

2 Peter 2: 1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

Peter says Noah was "a preacher of righteousness" if God wasn't dealing with them How did Noah know what to preach, How was it that Enoch walked with God and was not? God has dealt with all mankind since the fall of Adam, God provided the means that ALL people of ALL AGES (Dispensations, Era whatever term you want) were able to come to salvation, but not all did, God has always and will always provide the way.

Had the people have repented then God would have provided the way and means, but God knew the "thoughts and intents of their hearts" and knew they weren't going to repent.

 

Excellent thread MK....... And civil too! Good job Iconoclast. Good info, I've enjoyed reading.

 

KYRED,

We are having fun just enjoying the word and fellowshipping in here,lol
I think it is supposed to be this way most of the time. Just letting the scriptures speak and pointing to many of the great aspects of so great a salvation available to sinners in Jesus.
I am still and continually studying about our covenant keeping God.
This equates to the Divine promise made to sinners IN CHRIST.

Always enjoy your posts and we intend to keep going on this for awhile, so if you want to jump in as time permits,feel free brother!

I think many of us {baptists} have had some teaching on the covenants, but not really as much as we could have. This is why there is much confusion on the grace of God. We could raise the level of discussion on the BB if we dig a bit more into the revealed things of God and his word...rather than human philosophy, star trek theology, and emotional outbursts:smilewinkgrin:

 

REVMAC,
For a meaning of the name Methuselah, Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names reads When He Is Dead It Shall Be Sent

REVMAC.....

If this is how the bible describes them here,and Romans describes man as dead in Adam....what do you mean when you say...
Doesn't mean they couldn't ??? What is here that suggests to you they could?

The way you frame this statement...looks like you have God reacting to man,rather than God doing what he has purposed to do.

Do you see how your additions to the text reverse this order.
You do it here also;

The text does not tell us that Noah had faith in the promise or not ,it says Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord....that would be the cause of any righteousness he had. It would be the gift of God's grace.
Which verse does it say...he had grace- because he sacrificed properly?

What Man does is not the cause of God giving grace;

REVMAC..... we can rejoice that we worship a God who saves sinners.We can be thankful that He extends grace to multitudes.

Yes...God has dealt with all mankind;

Either the remain under the covenant of works,condemned,:dead in Adam
or
They by God's grace are placed in the last Adam...the Lord Jesus Christ in the eternal covenant of Grace by new birth:godisgood:

 

The ANTI-Deluvians remained under the curse because they chose to follow wickedness. God in His Foreknowledge prepared for the salvation of the 8 souls. God has always and will always count righteousness to man in the same way, He counted Abrahams faith for righteousness, He counts our faith for righteousness and Noah found grace by faith and God counted that for his righteousness. God has never changed the way He deals with mankind for salvation it has always and will always be by Grace through faith. Adam to Noah, Noah to Abraham, Abaham to Moses, Moses to the Apostles, the Apostles to us God has always saved "by Grace through Faith and not of ourselves it is the gift of God not of works lest anyone should boast." Those Anti-diluvians who were saved were saved by Grace through faith. Enoch never saw death and he walked with God and God took him, sounds like God was dealing with man at that time. Man turned wicked, God knew they would and God had prepared before He ever created earth the mehod to deal with that wickedness, He made the way to flood the whole earth. In His Foreknowledge he knew the wickedness and made preparations for it. In His Foreknowledge long before it happened He designed an Ark for salvation of mankind physically, in His foreknoledge He made the way of salvation for mankind in eternity through His Son Christ. The Plan was made because of Foreknowledge by God the plan was to send the person of the Son to die for mankind so that through Him all could be made righteous through Faith, by the free gift (GRACE) all mankind has always and will always be saved. Everything God has done or will do for mankinds salvation through the ages is because He has foreknowledge of all things.

 

REVMAC,
I agree God has always dealt with his people by grace through faith,yes.

Not trying to split theological hairs, but foreknowledge is used of persons....not their actions.

Omniscience speaks of God knowing all things and all possible things.

The terms are similar but different. Foreknowledge is used of God setting his love upon a nation[which contained an elect remnant], or of God knowing His covenant people.

REVMAC.....God had been preserving the godly line from Gen 3....and still does today. not sure what you were trying to say here.

Well.....the elect or seed of the woman were from among mankind...but scripture points to the elect out of mankind for salvation.
We preach to all kinds of men everywhere because we do not know who among them if any might be a sinner whom God has elected unto life.

The verses in Romans 1 that speak of God's wrath as being revealed from heaven.....have great force. We do not need to apologize for them.
God's salvation is going worldwide.....but it is not, and has never been intended for all mankind-each and everyone.

 

Foreknowledge to know before hand and Hebrews 4: 12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

The word of God (i.e. God) is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. God knew the thoughts and intents of the heart when?

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Gives us the answer He knew it yesterday (past), today (currently) and forever (future). So is not foreknowledge knowing before hand and he knew beforehand the thoughts and intents of each on of our hearts.

 

That would be omniscience. knowing events beforehand .Acts15:18

Foreknowledge would be to know persons intimately beforehand....for whom he did foreknow

 

Believers were not to marry unbelievers.....A covenant home cannot be maintained when there are those who are non covenant people in the home, they destroy the home,leading to apostasy and idolatry, turning the heart away from the things of God,

Even marraige was viewed in light of the Covenant.:type:

 

menageriekeeper...

This really piqued my interest when I read your opening post.

Now, what I an about to share is not intended to mean that I believe this will always happen, because..unfortunetly..it doesnt always happen.

But this is my experience.....


When I was born again back in 1982, my immediate family were all lost people. My Mom, my Dad, and my younger sister. Now, I did'nt make a pest of myself, or badger them constantly, but I did plant seeds as God gave opportunity

As a result, many years later...

My mother came to saving faith shortly before she passed.

My Dad heard the gosple, and recieved Christ, shortly before he passed.

And I had the honor of leading my sister to Christ 1 day before she passed.

PRAISE GOD, PRAISE GOD, PRAISE GOD.

...and I posted those last few sententances with wet eyes.

God is so good!

 

Let's address the window issue first if you look at it's description there was only 1 window in the ark it was in the very top. You had to look up to see out of it.

Noah preached because God told him to preach and build, God gave him the dimensions because God already knew how many would be in it. God now has and has always had the perfect plan for man's ssalvation. There very well may have been those who came seeking the Ark but it was too late once the door had closed. Just as it is too late when a person dies and it is too late for salvation.

 

12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. 13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

MK....it is clear in the text....God had purposed to:
17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Why the hundred and twenty years?

The long suffering of God...waited....like today.

mk....the long suffering is God waiting,bearing with the sin of the ungodly,until all the elect are safe in the Ark...[CHRIST JESUS]..then the judgement comes.

see here;
13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

and here again;

Mk....see it is a covenant thing...not a cal/arm thing.....
see how long-suffering is used?
look at the language used by God to Noah;

The Covenant is always in view.....

If God shut the door...it would have been dis-obedience to attempt to open it, as if God was not right to judge the sin of the un-repentant ungodly.
Men are responsible to repent and believe...they have no guarentee of tommorow.