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Andersonville Seminary

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Martin, Sep 5, 2005.

  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No need to. Just look at this web page. http://abhe.gospelcom.net/affiliates.htm

    Andersonville has "Affiliate Status" with The Association for Biblical Higher Education, formerly The Accrediting Association of Bible Colleges. ABHE is recognized as an accrediting agency by the US Department of Education.

    However, the web page goes on to say, "The primary focus of the Association for Biblical Higher Education is accreditation, but non-member institutions may also relate to the Association through an Affiliate Status. This affords affiliate institutions the opportunity to take advantage of many of the programs and services that the Association provides without becoming an accredited member. Affiliation with the Association is not to be confused with accreditation."

    It is not necessarily true that Andersonville is seeking accreditation. Affiliate status might be the first step for doing so, but it may also just to take advantage of some of their programs and services.
     
  2. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    Andersonville is making excuses about their accreditation. They are "seeking it" yet they warn that if it will "raise their tuition" they will turn it down. Yea, right. The reason they will be an affiliate with The Association for Biblical Higher Education and not accredited by them is simple: they would have to raise their standards (which they are not going to do). Andersonville is really a Bible institute that offers associate degrees (which they call master, doctorate degrees). The tutition excuse, as I said above, is just that...an excuse.

    Andersonville (and schools like it) is doing a great business with people who, for what ever reason, don't wish to attend an accredited school. If they raised their standards (w/ or w/out a tution increase) they would probably lose students. That they will not risk. Andersonville, and schools like it, fill a place in the Christian educational community. They offer low cost degrees. Many major seminaries tuition is too high for pastors, missionaries, etc. So with a low tuition rate Andersonville gets those who want a degree but can't pay the high tuition rates (look at tuition for Regent or Dallas). They also offer "advanced" degrees (ie..above the bachelors degree) without very high academic standards. Students are not required to take standardized tests (MAT, GRE, etc) nor are they required to take a certain number of Greek, Hebrew, Latin, or German classes in order to get a degree or enter the doctoral programs. Therefore students who don't want to go through such academic rigor will attend Andersonville (and schools like it, Covington, etc). Also there are many pastors (etc) who don't have the ability to get through those tougher programs even if they wanted to, so Andersonville (etc) will get those people as well. Andersonville (etc) will also get the students who just want a degree and are not going for a profession and thus don't want the high tuition and high academic standards.

    So Andersonville has a place.

    Martin.

    [ September 18, 2005, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: Martin ]
     
  3. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    Martin

    Six points:

    1) I believe that it is true that many do not really understand accreditation. Believe it or not , when I entered TTS in 2000 AFTER finishing the work for three RA accredited masters degrees in Theology and two RA accredited teaching credentials, I still gullibly thought that TTS' $225 sticker on my diploma indicating "global accreditation" through Liverpool must be better than RA since it is, after all, geographically larger [​IMG] !!! I just had never had the reason to investigate the meaning and importance of real accreditation!

    2) You raise the issue of cost. Most perhaps do not realize that there are many opportunities to finish degrees with the foreign equivalent of RA at a fraction of the cost of US RA programs. My USA ThM cost around $10,000, but my SA ThD only about $2000-$2500!

    3) Probably it is true that some who opt for UA substandard doc work do so not necessarily because of the inability to suceed in a better program, but because they lack an accredited higher masters in the appropriate subject.

    4) The fact of the matter , I think, is that some denominations and churches really don't care whether or not their ministers have rigorous and/or accredited docs or not. IMO that is a wrong attitude, but I have little hope that it ever will change. Somehow we are expected to do our very best for God in everything but doing academic docs appear at times to be exempted from that expectation. Why that is, I don't know.

    5) You and I know that many Christian leaders as, say Zhodiates or James White, are highly sucessful despite having UA docs. People may reason that what is good enough for these is good enough for us. Such logic supposes that the man generally makes the academic doc and not the academic doc the man. This logic IMO is based on extreme exceptions to the rule that in most cases doc level rigor is more likely to happen in accredited programs than in UA ones. It is the rigor of doing really substantial academics that IMO in most cases makes the man an academic. And that rigor usually, but not exclusively, attends accredited not UA programs because the former requires it most often.

    6) IMO it probably is true that some othewise fine Christians really wish to be be called "Dr." more than they wish to genuinely earn that title. Sometime I will tell you the story of "Dr." Withy who finely exemplifies that situation!

    Again my points connect to Biblical/Theological studies , not to praxis.

    Bill

    [ September 19, 2005, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: UZThD ]
     
  4. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Is there anything in sight that might indicate that Andersonville is or will be raising the level of thier courses?
     
  5. steveo

    steveo New Member

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    I know price was a factor for me and I agree that mainly it is how you apply yourself.
    You could well have more bible knowledge from attending 4 years at a bible college than having 4 years at a secular university with a bachelors in cooking and then attending a seminary for 2 years and getting your MDiv.
     
  6. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    a 2 yr MDiv? Where?
     
  7. steveo

    steveo New Member

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    Well my friends had their bachelors and went to southern seminary and got their masters in 2 years, so I'm not sure if they were in a excellerated program or maybe had extra credits.
     
  8. steveo

    steveo New Member

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    My bag. I did talk to one of my friends and
    it did take him about 4 years.
    For some reason it seemed shorter.
     
  9. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    ==

    no problem.

    Quite a few enter seminary with a BA in Bible (not cooking) as I did. Then they finish the three yr MDiv or do another yr for a ThM too.

    Often the Biblical languages and more in depth studies are taken in seminary not college.
     
  10. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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  11. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Strong's! Everyone knows to do proper word studies in Greek one needs the Englishman's Greek Concordance of the NT! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    steveo

    Isn't it ironic that your friends were on a two-year accelerated MDiv tack (because of their Bachelor's) and it still took 4 years?

    [ September 21, 2005, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: El_Guero ]
     
  13. Brother Ian

    Brother Ian Active Member

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    Thanks for all your comments folks.

    I spoke with the Director of Church Development from the Jacksonville (FL) Baptist Convention (SBC). He encouraged me to continue on and finish the D.Min. at Andersonville. He said that in the SBC in Florida, pastor's backgrounds varied from no education to various doctoral degrees from accredited and non-accredited institutions.

    I have no call to teach at a university or seminary. The Lord has called me to pastor and I feel from the counsel I have received from other pastors and full-time ministry employees, the degree I earn at Andersonville will be sufficient at this time.

    I don't know about the possibility of completing future education as I have a son that will enter college in two years and a daughter in six. I'll have a hard time justifying more money on my education with the cost of sending them to college.

    Thanks again.
     
  14. ascund

    ascund New Member

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    Hey Brother Ian

    Much education makes one mad! It is a worldly fallacy that godly education at a public institution accredited by worldly standards is the best godly education.

    To this I respond: BUNK!

    Your inner calling by God's Spirit cannot be compared to formal education. The Spirit's calling is categorically different from human wisdom in teaching God's Word.

    Go to whatever school you have been led to attend. It matters not which one you choose. Lend your formal education to the Spirit's teaching!

    Lloyd
     
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Brother Ian, about 15 years ago some of my former students asked me about a D. Min. program that did not require on-campus classes. Most of them were either in active pastorates or on the mission field. I looked around to see what was available, and affordable, taking into account that many men in the pastorate and on the foreign mission field are vastly under supported.

    I found Andersonville and called Jimmy Hayes and talked to him for about an hour. I was not entirely satisfied concerning the value of a D. Min. from Andersonville so enrolled myself, not being willing to recommend something I was not familiar with!

    Over the next 2 years I completed all the academic requirements and wrote a thesis and submitted it, and received my D. Min. in 1992.

    I was pleasantly surprised at the curriculum. It was informative and challenging. I had been a seminary professor for over 10 years, but the information I received regarding pastoral ministry was very useful (I have been senior pastor of the same church for over 20 years). I found that the education I received studying for the D. Min., although, being a professional degree it was completely different from my research degree, it proved to be invaluable in honing my pastoral skills.

    Many of the people in my congregation noted they saw a change in my pastoral demeanor. I had been a good bible teacher from the pulpit, but I now became more of a "hands-on" pastor (prior to this I had a Director of Ministries who worked for me who actually oversaw most of the "hands-on" pastoral responsibilities).

    After my Director of Ministries accepted a position with a well known school in Florida I replaced him with a man from a nearby church and bible college. After two years he told me the Lord was leading him to a church planting ministry in the Pacific Northwest. We sent him out and I did not replace him. I now am not only a bible teacher, preacher, expositor, but also a "hands-on" pastor.

    I learned a lot from that D. Min. program and would recommend it to anyone with an M.Div. who is looking for a second professional degree to enhance his pastoral skills, bearing in mind it is not a research degree and would not contribute much to a man in a purely academic ministry.

    Let us know, after you finish, what you thought of the experience. [​IMG]
     
  16. UZThD

    UZThD New Member

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    "A first hope of mine is that as Evangelicals we will set high standards, both in scholarship and in education...while not making liberal or secular scholarship our standard, we will, however, want to make sure that we not only equal but exceed it."

    Millard J. Erickson,
    Presidential Address,
    "Evangelical Theological Scholarship in the Twenty-First Century,"
    54th Annual Meeting of the Evangelical Theological Society,
    Nov 20th, 2002.
     
  17. Broadus

    Broadus Member

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    Bunk! ;) Accreditation has nothing to do with adopting worldly criteria to certify spiritual teaching. Accreditation is an attempt, though fallible, to certify that the institution is capable of, and is doing, what it claims able to do.

    The issues are rigor and ethics (or a lack thereof). I have no idea how much work is involved with a DMin at Andersonville, but I do know that they cannot ethically offer a ThD, which they do offer. They don't have the faculty capable of overseeing such study. Check out http://www.andersonvilleseminary.com/pdf/teachers.pdf , scroll through the list of "teachers," and find the ones who actually are listed as teaching at Andersonville.

    In addition, the requirements are really minimal. The following comprises their Master of Theology and ThD requirements as listed in their catalog:

    Institutions which refuse to pursue accreditation would have it if they qualified, but they don't, with rare exceptions. Andersonville couldn't get real accreditation if they wanted, and if they raised their standards high enough to obtain it, they would lose students . . . and money.

    My question to folks attending Andersonville is this: Why choose Andersonville when there are quality alternatives available?

    Bill
     
  18. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Both degrees combined do not measure up to an M.Div. degree.
     
  19. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    How does a deceased person teach? It is incredible that a deceased person is listed as a faculty member.

    Something isn't right here.

    Why do the legitimate scholars allow their names to be listed as faculty?

    Who actually does the teaching or mentoring?

    I'm starting my own school, and with the degrees I've already earned from accredited institutions, I'm going to award myself a Ph.D. I've done more work than what is required for a Th.D. at Andersonville.
     
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I have never seen a Th.M. program that did not require an M.Div. or its academic equivalent as a prerequisite.

    And I have never seen a Th.D. program that did not require at least 3-5 years of teaching experience at the Master's level as a prerequisite.

    But then, I don't recommend ATS for any Theology degree, but my comments regarding the D.Min. program stand. It can prove to be helpful to a pastor in a pastoral ministry. [​IMG]
     
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