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Another Reminder of the Necessity of the Conservative Resurgence

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Jun 22, 2017.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Several years ago I sat in an associational meeting where a trio of pastors sang “In Christ Alone.” It’s a wonderful hymn, and I was excited to hear it sung in our meeting. That is until they got to the end of the second verse where the song—as written by Stuart Townend and Keith Getty—says, “‘Till on that cross as Jesus died, the wrath of God was satisfied.” I knew the song and was familiar with the lyrics. So you can imagine my shock when instead these three pastors sang, “Till on that cross as Jesus died, the love of God was magnified.” Of course there is nothing wrong with saying that the love of God was magnified on the cross. But I knew what was happening. The song had been adapted so as not to affirm penal substitution.

    That was my first personal experience with Baptist pastors denying the substitutionary atonement of Jesus. Sadly, it was not the last.

    Another Reminder of the Necessity of the Conservative Resurgence
     
    #1 Revmitchell, Jun 22, 2017
  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    It is worth recognizing that at least one, and perhaps all three, of the Southern Baptist pastor trio was uncomfortable with substitutionary atonement -- and that this happened after the Conservative Resurgence, since was "In Christ Alone" was copyrighted in 2001.
     
    #2 rlvaughn, Jun 22, 2017
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  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Not sure what your point is.
     
    #3 Revmitchell, Jun 22, 2017
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The SBC has a history of modifying the words of hymns if they offend the sensitivity of Theological Liberals.

    Isaac Watts wrote:

    Alas! and did my Savior bleed
    And did my Sov’reign die?
    Would He devote that sacred head
    For such a worm as I?

    But the Southern Baptist Hymnal reads:

    For a sinner such as I.

    I asked a pastor friend about it and he said "We are sinners, but not the wormy kind."

    I just quoted Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

    :)
     
    #4 TCassidy, Jun 22, 2017
  5. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    My point is the need for "eternal vigilance" against false doctrine. The Conservative Resurgence is not "once and done." According to Adam this was not just a case of these guys not knowing any better but "was [his] first personal experience with Baptist pastors denying the substitutionary atonement of Jesus."
     
    #5 rlvaughn, Jun 22, 2017
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  6. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Like Watts, we are still worms when we sing it!
     
    #6 rlvaughn, Jun 22, 2017
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  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Good. Me too. And I sing extra loud on that phrase. :)

    There are still hymn books available that have the original, non-revisionist, lyrics. :)
     
    #7 TCassidy, Jun 22, 2017
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  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Back in 2013 I heard Alister Begg mention this subject. Apparently Townend and Getty now attend hischurch, and were approached by PCUSA who wanted to include In Christ Alone in their new hymn Book, but with the words altered as you report. After consulting with Begg, Townend and Getty refused permission and the hymn didn't go into the book.

    So anyone singing the hymn with those words is actually breaking the copyright.
     
    #8 Martin Marprelate, Jun 27, 2017
  9. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Resurgence? Check out what the first president of the SBC, W.B. Johnson, believed:

    From the 2009 official history of SBTS regarding the Abstract of Principles:

    Southern Baptist Seminary 1859-2009

    "there was one other view prevailing among Southern Baptists...a 'moral government' view of Christ's death....Two prominent Southern Baptists held this view, William B. Johnson and Edwin Mims, Boyce's predecessor at Furman."

    In preparing the Abstract, Basil Manley "attempted to accommodate the moral government view": the penal substitution and moral government views were not distinguished.
     
    #9 Jerome, Jun 27, 2017
  10. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    More on SBC founding president W.B. Johnson's moral government view of atonement:

    books.google.com/books?id=N7NLAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA150

    "Love Characteristic of the Deity," a sermon by W.B. Johnson since yanked from the Founders 'Ministries' website:

    web.archive.org/web/19970726085145/founders.org/library/sermons/johnson.html

    "The representation of Jehovah's love, explodes, therefore, that idea, which obtains among many, and which in their view forms a strong objection against the Gospel scheme, viz.: That it is inconsistent to say our salvation is purchased at the price of a full atonement, and yet a free pardon is proclaimed to the sinner."

    "full atonement is perfectly consistent with free pardon; for it is not the payment of the sinner's debt on the principles of pecuniary or commercial justice, but a satisfaction to moral justice"

    "It is the interest which the soul has in the benefits of the atonement that effects this deliverance; an interest that depends not upon the principle of atonement, but upon that by which it has been provided, and in which it originates, viz.: Love"
     
    #10 Jerome, Jul 3, 2017
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