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Another Thread On Translation

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Feb 27, 2018.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Are you advocating shoddy translation? Answer with no equivocation.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, I agree the NIV translation should not be called optimal or balanced.
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Van is ducking and dodging once again. He is not honest enough to answer a simple question.
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You agree with whom or what?
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Loose translations are needless, and reflect shoddy translation practices. Often the presuppositions of the translators overrule accuracy in the name of readability. "Act like men" is not politically correct, but those are the inspired words.

    Which translations avoid the actual text? Among them are the NIV, NET,and CSB. See a pattern?
     
  6. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    What does it mean to "act like men"? Pee on the toilet seat? Be stubborn? Take pit the trash? Beat your wife? Go hunting? Vote Republican?

    Luckily many "literal" transaltion give us the meaning and intent of the word Paul uses. Such as NKJV, LEB, and WEB.

    Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong.
    I Corinthians 16:13 NKJV

    Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act courageously, be strong.
    1 Corinthians 16:13 LEB

    Watch! Stand firm in the faith! Be courageous! Be strong!
    1 Corinthians 16:13 WEB

    "Act like men" is a lost on some cultures...it is ambiguous to certain people in certain walks of life. The NKJV, LEB, WEB, NIV, and CSB properly give the meaning of this idiom. Thus providing an actual translation.

    Per BDAG
    ἀνδρίζομαι...."conduct oneself in a courageous way"

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There are instances in formal translations, such as Nkjv/Nasb do indeed choose to render a looser rendering in order to have it make more sense than a strict literal one!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There are NO fully literal/formal translations though, so we need to accept that truth! And those versions listed here are all acceptable ones, just not as good as the more formal ones for serious studies!
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There are no fully literal translations, as that would be an Interlinear, and rough to read through and use !
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Assertions without citations are like dogs that will not hunt.
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for your edifying post. Apparently the literal translation (act like men) has an idiomatic meaning, be courageous.

    As I have said before, the best method is to translate the "idiom" literally and then footnote what the translators believe is the idiomatic meaning This provides protection of the text if the translators are mistaken as to the meaning.

    Another point that is lost with God's inspired word interpreted, is the fact that men should be courageous. And what about there is no difference in Christ between male and female. Thus Christian women should act like men because courage is an attribute of Christians.
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note how it is implied my view is that there are "fully literal/formal" translations. But no quote is provided. Why, because it is yet another straw-man from the empty sack argument.

    We need to start with the best formal equivalence versions (NASB, LEB, NKJV} and improve them with insights from less formal versions such as the NET, WEB, CSB and others.

    This is such a simple obvious and necessary step.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Idioms in the original languages pretty much have to come over into English in a "less literal" form!
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, use th formal version for serious studying, and use the more dynamic ones for casual reading.
     
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    So in fact, the NKJV and the others gave the dictionary definition of ἀνδρίζομαι without interpretation. :)
     
  16. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Regarding the phrase in 1 Cor. 16:13 with some repetition:

    CSB ,NLT ,NRSV,WEB : be courageous; be strong
    ISV, GW : be courageous and strong
    NET : show courage, be strong
    CEB, NKJV : be brave, be strong
    CEV : Stay brave and strong
    LEB : act courageously, be strong
    ________________________________________________________________________________
    Van, had been arguing since Nov. of 2015 that all of the above translations are mistaken translations --or as he inelegantly put it : they "messed up". Now he has finally come around and acknowledged that he in fact was the one in error. Refreshing.
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Pay no attention to Mr Rippon's characterization of the views of others, they are works of fiction.

    My unchanged view is that idioms should be translated literally in the main text (act like a man) and footnoted with the idiomatic meaning (be courageous).

     
  18. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Nuff said! LOL!
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Nuff said indeed, no "I was wrong" or "be courageous" reflects the literal word meaning.

    Pay no attention...
     
  20. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    In other words functional equivalence.
     
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