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Featured Are Human Beings Born Sinners?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Feb 17, 2021.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I am not altogether clear on this subject, as there are clearly verses that say that we are from the womb, at least “sinful”, that is, our human natures are corrupt. And, then there are other verses, especially that in Romans 9:11, that says that babies in the womb are not “sinners”?

    Deuteronomy 1:39
    And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.

    Isaiah 7:15-16
    He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted.

    Jonah 4:11
    And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?”

    Romans 9:11
    though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad

    These verses seem to show that humans are not born “sinners”, which I understand, of someone who actually “commits a sinful act”. Though, they do have their “natures” that are indeed sinful.

    When King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, she gave birth to a son. God, in His Righteous Judgment, took this child from David. See what David says about the death of this child.

    “And he said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who knows, the Lord may be gracious to me, and the child may live.’But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I am going to him, but he will not return to me.”” (2 Samuel 12:22-23)

    It is very clear from this passage, that David believed that this son of his, was in heaven after he had died. Which is why he rejoiced at the fact that he would be joining him, after his own death. If this child was a “lost sinner”, then surely he could not be in heaven, as there are no sinners in heaven.

    As I have said, I am not 100% sure about this, and interested to see what other Scriptures can be produced on this. David's prayer in Psalm 51, does not mean that the words "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" (verse 5), refer to every human being.
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Your supposition. Jesus, who is sinless, after He died, went to Paradise and Hades, Luke 23:43, Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
     
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I am making no such connection. What is your point
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You made the extra Biblical claim, "David believed that this son of his, was in heaven after he had died."
     
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  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    How can quoting the Bible be extra Biblical? It is very clear to me show where I am wrong
     
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  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You simply did not quote anything about David and his dead child in Heaven.
     
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think that he is saying that while David saw him and the baby would be reunited, not in Heaven , but in Sheol!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All of us are born in Adam, so share his sin nature, Jesus avoided that due to his Virgin Birth!
     
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Rom 5:19
    For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

    The many refers to everyone except the One (Jesus).

    When we are conceived and born we have done nothing wrong (sinful) but we in a sinful state, separated from God. And the only way to become united with God is to believe and for God to credit our belief as righteousness and transfer us into Christ.
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    And where is that
     
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Having a sinful nature is not the same as being a sinner which requires the actual act of sinning
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are sinners by nature and confirmed by our choices!
     
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus said that the saved OT were in paradise, Abraham Bosom, not in Heaven until He ascended with them!
     
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  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    sure, but no one who goes to "Abraham Bosom", does not end up in heaven? So, David's son when he died will be in heaven. This either means that he was "without sin", or that sinners get into heaven? If the former, then the 4 passages in the OP must mean that there is a time in each human beings life, known only to God, when they are not "sinners", as in having actually committed any sinful acts.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Both David and his son now in heaven, but did not go straight there in the OT times....
     
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  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    if young children, say, for the sake of argument, under 2, have not "done nothing wrong", then they are not actual "sinners", and when they die, will go to heaven.
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    how did the son get there, he would have been too young to repent or believe?
     
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    even 0-2 year olds?
     
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    read the passage in the OT. David clearly says that he will meet his son one day, this can only be in heaven, as his son was dead at the time. Unless you think that David is in hell?
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    all infants saved by the grace of God would be my answer
     
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