Are there "true salvations" if a false gospel is presented?

I don't disagree with you in the least. I don't think anyone is remotely implying that one could use things like movies, videos, books, etc etc, as replacements for scripture. Not at all.

 

So if I teach my Sunday School kids about Solomon, or Moses, or the tale of David and Goliath, or Jonah and the whale, etc, then I'm not properly evangelizing? Did it ever occur to you, or anyone else, that there's more to the teaching of scripture than that? Not to downplay the Gospel, but likewise, we should not downplay the other lessons taught by scripture, lessins vitally important for Godly living.

 

John, evangelism is about repentance from sin and faith toward God.

Please explain where you disagree with that.

 

I don't (Evangelism defined is to preach the Gospel) What I disagree with is the notion that every biblie study, every sundy school class, every worship service, every biblie-themed movie, bible-themed book, every biblie-themed video, must be about repentance and salvation, especially to the exclusion of the multitude of other life's lessons taught on the Bible.

In regards to Veggietales, most don't discuss salvation and repentence? Does this mean they're of no spiritual value? Of couse they (or at least the bible stories they're referring to) have spiritual value!

 

Where did I ever say that everything must be about the facts of the gospel?

 

You said that if a method does not call for repentance of sin and faith in Christ alone, it should not be considered an evangelistic tool. I, otoh, think that things like Veggietales and other movies/stories can be used as tools for evangelism, even if they don't touch on the teachings of Christ, per se.

 

John, I gotta say, with a clear conscience, the veggie tales lack spiritual value. Being good to each other, helping others out, and accepting those different from you don't result in salvation.

To me, every story the Bible tells is a picture of the need for, the way to attain, or the result of, salvation.

 

I disagree. Many stories in the Bible gives us life's lessons about living a Godly life. Most of these stories predate the NT by centuries, and they should not be overlooked. Salvation guarantees our being with the Lord in heaven for eternity, but salvation does not guarantee us living a Godly life. These stories should not be overlooked. Being good to each other, helping others out, and accepting those different from you are Godly traits that need to be taught. They don't just "magically appear" when one gets saved. Believe me, I know a few people who are truly saved, but are unkind human beings toward their neighbors.

 

Let me correct myself....

The veggie tales that I have forced myself to watch have very little value. I don't particularly want to view anymore, but if you come across one that will change my mind, let me know.

 

We had a game we used to play, on road trips with pur music director, and we all got pretty good. He told us we could not come up with one Old Testament story that didn't show a picture of Christ. I challenge you to do the same. We could not stump him. I know some miserable Christians also, but the Holy Spirit must deal with them. They won't learn anything from veggie tales that ain't in scripture.

Salvation is to be the primary message, I will always believe that.

Corinthians 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

 

Interestingly, the creators of Veggietales have struggles for a while on how to present the Gospel story itself. They've come across quite the roadblock. Many people don't like the idea of Jesus being portrayed by a computer generated vegetable. One possibel storyline involves the veggietale cast of produce portraying NT characters who have seen the risen Jesus and are telling others what they saw. I'm sure they'll pull it off, whatever they decide to do.

 

Many people don't like the idea of Jesus being portrayed by a computer generated vegetable.

Resulting in poor sales, no doubt.

 

John, evangelism doesn't exist if repentance and faith are not present.

If you are referring to growth and other areas beyond actually becoming a Christian, that is different.

I still don't understand your problem.

 

You said if a method does not call for repentance of sin and faith in Christ alone, it should not be considered an evangelistic tool. My POV is that not everything needs to be an evangelistic tool. Perhaps we're simply discussing two different songs from the same hymnal here.

 

I didn't say everything had to be an evangelistic tool.

I did say that if it lacked certain things that it wasn't an evangelistic tool. Do you understand?

 

Yes, and I'm in agreement with you on that point, since evangelism by definition involves preaching of the Gospel.

 

They won't learn anything from veggie tales that ain't in scripture.

Salvation is to be the primary message, I will always believe that.

Curtis I don't understand the point of your quote above. It sounds like you are promoting veggie tales with your claim that they won't learn anything from them that ain't in scripture. Please explain what you mean. Also I agree as all Christians do that salvation must be the primary message but it is not to be at the exclusion of any other biblical message. As to your road game what about Elisha calling bears out of the woods to eat the young men who sought Elijah.
Murph

 

The original question:

If the Holy Spirit is working on a person, the messenger can say broccoli and the one under conviction will hear (in his heart) what he needs to hear to be saved.

JMHO,
§ue

 

How does that work, Sue??