Are we sometimes too familiar with God?

Interesting you bring up the praise music in connection with our relationship to God.

I do agree with what you said and I would add that the praise music is a bit "universal" for me.
When you listen to the lyrics, you come to realize that almost anyone of any denomination can sing and say them.

The praise music is void of all the doctrinal teachings found in the old hymns that have stood the test of time.

 

That's right.

 

It's not her understanding alone. James Barr is the primary figure who demonstrated that the equivalent of "Daddy" is not correct. That's why no English Bible translations have it.

I'm glad you agree.

No flaw. She elaborated enough to my satisfaction.

Robertson did not even mention the word "daddy" in the quote you furnished. So I don't understand any point you are trying to make here.

Well, good! The trouble is too many pastors/teachers subscribe to the earlier view of Jeremias.It's not exceptional at all.

He retracted his view after Barr's work on the subject.

[quote
The words (sic)usage, while true it was used by adults as well, corrisponds(sic) back to when it began being used the reasons for it's (sic)use.
[/quote]

Care to rephrase that in more understandable English? "...back to when it began being used the reasons for it's use." Say what?

I think the phrase "Dear Father" is quite adequate to convey the force of Abba Father.

Agreed. It's settled.

 

Your still wrong because James Barr was wrong :laugh:
You aren't gaining any ground in using this source that is agian incorrect in not only where the view began or originated, but also what it means.
While he is correct in the wooden literal meaning he is incorrect in the proper word used to convey a family relationship verse a title of authority. While Father 'generically' relates to the above, in our language and even in modern Hebrew 'father' does not adequately convey what the term 'daddy' represents to us.

I also find in interesting that you took this off of this site but did not give credit for it.
However the main point being argued by Barr and well as your authur was that daddy was refering to it as baby-talk. Again, he is the only person who held to this.

However, from that blog which used this same thing I liked what this person had to say in the comments:

From the Easton Bible Dictionary:

And A Dictionary of the Bible | 1997 | W. R. F. BROWNING:

I can keep quoting from NUMEROUS scholars and biblical encyclopedia's and dictionaries and articles which speak to the fact the word 'abba' while it 'can' mean father in the sense of a title and of respect (of which adults use), but also that it incorporates intimacy and relationship (of which children did and still do use) My point is (as well as the vast majority of others) -

The inherent meaning of a word is defined by it's usages as well as (as in this case) who is speaking it. Historically we note that children used the term abba to speak of their male parents and scripture also states we who are believers are 'children' and that 'of God', and that we are to become like little children to enter the kingdom - and so on and so on. The words usage, while true it was used by adults as well, [the usage extends farther] back to when it began being used (by children), [and thus defining] it as more than just a title and for respect.

Again, the reference to 'daddy' is not about a literal translation issue but a cultural understanding of what the word 'abba' or 'father' entails and other possible words that equate to it in different cultures - especially in light of the fact our language has no perfect equivolent.

The point and his intent was noting children using abba in reference to their fathers denoting intimate family relationship as well as respect as noted here: "Was it not natural for both words to come to him in his hour of agony as in his childhood". And his comment about Paul making reference to it in Galatians: "a probable memory of Paul's childhood prayers", especially in light of the fact the Jewish people already called God 'Father', indentifying their personal relationship to him as His children.



So to recap:
When Abba is spoken of regarding its meaning as 'Daddy' it is speaking more to the cultural usage of the familar and common word establishing to that person affection, endearment, and respect of the male parent. In America we do not typically use the formal 'Father' toward our male gender parent but Daddy. Father is a term that is more a title in our culture and though it does denotes respect but not necessarily include endearment toward or affection for person. However the term, Daddy encapsulates all these qualities and thus it reflects the same 'meaning' as 'Abba' does. Thus what I meant by the word Father corrsponding more aptly across the board, is that in a 'general' sense this word should convey all such things but in reality it does not in each culture.

Also it is factual that scholars can't assert with 100% certainty that when Jesus said "Abba!" he was using a formal or an informal address for God.

 

You can't get around that. Why is it the case that no English Bible version has Abba Daddy? Do you wish to petition the translators to change that state of affairs?

 

Fantastic!

 

:godisgood:

 

I have been rereading the book Complete In Him by Michael P.V. Barrett.He's the President of Geneva Reformed Seminary. In chapter 8 :Adoption:The Privileges In The Gospel -- I'll relate some things he says regarding Abba.

Abba is a transliteration of the Aramaic word for "the father" and it occurs only three times in the New Testament. However, these three appearances speak volumes. Before considering the three texts, I must define the word. The ab part of the word is the standard Semitic term meaning "father"; the ba part of the word reflects the Aramaic way of making a word definite. In other words, Abba does not just mean "father"; it means the father. Notwithstanding the phonetic simplicity of the word, it is not to be equated with the equally phonetically simple expressions "dada" or "daddy" that English-speaking children so easily utter as their first appellation for their earthly fathers. Abba is not a nickname; it is not a childish term of sentimentality or endearment. Rather, it is an honorific title that expresses the utmost reverence and respect due to any father -- and infinitely more so when referring to the Heavenly Father. The Lord Himself asks, "If then I be a father [Hebrew ab], where is mine honour?" (Malachi 1:6). Although every child of God has the privilege of approaching God as his Father and so addressing Him, none has the right to address the Lord as "Dad" or "Daddy." It may be cute and endearing when a child refers to his earthly father in those terms, but it would be the height of irreverence to use such language in addressing God. The fact that the term Abba is easy to say is irrelevant to its honorific significance.
Although not a trivial term of endearment, Abba does express the intimacy of the father-child relationship. (pages 182,183)

 

Rip,
Why don't you admit it when you are wrong? Allan hit the nail right on the head.