Attitutudinal Issues

Another problem I see is that it SEEMS as if people think that in order to leave the "bad attitude towards others" behind, they also must leave the IFB church behind. Leaving the sort of bad attitude behind that you have described is part of growing up spiritually.....it doesn't mean you have to change churches, and it doesn't mean that you must judge those of us who are still IN an IFB church with STILL having the bad attitude.

Just to clarify, being conservative in your music does not mean that you are limiting yourself to last century's music.

 

Attitude.John the Baptist called the (religeous bigwigs)pharisees snakes.It was the scribes and pharisees who were all of the time trying to trap Jesus(they had the outward appearance of holiness).It was the religeous big boys who Jesus had the conflicts and problems with.The average believer,Mr. everydayman would realize he was in the presense of God when he stood before Jesus and would say things like Lord help me,Lord save me,be merciful to me a sinner.Now the scribes and pharisees had standards that were so heavy and extralegal Jesus warned them.We just need to ourselves be careful not to follow the path of the scribes and pharisees.Call that whatever you want.

 

This is part of the frustrasion of dealing with critics of fundamentalism. Even if we don't say it the presupposition is that we are guilty of some sort of air of supriority. We are guilty of it even if we don't say anything.

What kind of air is it that says, "You need to get a good dose of grace?"

 

It is not a simple question. Anytime we try to deal with attitudes, real or percieved, the issue becomes complex.

BTW, don't forget the 20 page BB posting limit.

 

I've only got 2 more pages to convince everyone I am right and you are wrong ??????

 

It did not have as much to do with leaving the attitude as it does leaving the practices and beliefs. That church continues to believe and practice the things described earlier. The last time I attended church there, I was told by the pastor it was okay for me to attend EVEN THOUGH I was now a Southern Baptist I said "Gee Thanks" and walked out never to return.

When you have lived in and experienced legalism and then God sets you free, you have no desire to be a part of that type of church. It only makes sense.

 

I don't think either of us is going to "win" here AAG.

 

That is because of many fundamentalist's consistent "we are right - you are wrong" attitude over non-essentials. Do you know how many IFB sermons I have heard belittling people who had different practices, beliefs, and standards? I am not sure why this is a point of contention. Everyone on here who is presently a fundy or a former fundy knows of this tendency. Why is this so difficult to acknowledge?

The kind of air that wants anyone and everyone living in the land of legalism to shed the chains.

 

In my mind, I have already won!!!

 

The kind of air that wants anyone and everyone living in the land of legalism to shed the chains. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]This clearly presupposes that we don't "have grace." Sorry my friend, that is an erroneous presupposition. I am bound by no chains.

A besides, in my mind I have already won .

 

You see, AAG? You left the church because you saw the church as the problem. No, its the ATTITUDE thats the problem. And you still HAVE the attitude, but now you've turned it around on the ones who stayed in that church.

If a pastor had walked up to me and said what you just described I would have taken it as friendly ribbing....joking around. But you CHOSE to assume he was serious and you got offended. Even if he WAS serious, the gracious thing to do would be to treat him as if he was joking.

I see this constantly with Ex-IFBers. There is a whole group that goes around badmouthing us, as if they KNOW our hearts. They talk about how they USED to be IFB, but now they "found grace." When you came in with that as part of your first post in this thread, I got a clue as to what was going on in your head. These people still see US as being as judgemental and legalistic as THEY "used" to be. I say they are STILL legalistic and judgemental, just from the opposite viewpoint.

Yesterday I was reading another board and saw a lady like this posting. She had the gall to say that a young man she didn't even know probably had a spiritual life that was "a mile wide and an inch deep." She said this based SOLELY on a description of him that said he had grown up going to an IFB church on a bus route, had gone on to attend the church's high school, and then Bible college, and was now serving Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now, she would "probably" be appalled at anyone calling her judgemental or legalistic. But she was being both to the extreme. She was saying, according to HER standards, anyone going faithfully to an IFB church would have NO spiritual life worth mentioning.
This is the sort of thing we get all the time.

And my contention is that those who leave IFB WITH THIS BITTER attitude, have the SAME attitude they accuse us of having.....but they project it onto EVERYONE IFB.

 

I truly believe that the origin for the judgemental attitude by those who are not fundamentalists can be laid primarily at the feet of Chuck Swindoll in "The Grace Awakening."

His main point? As a believe you can do ANYTHING you want, as long as you don't want to be a fundamentalist.

 

Wrong again.

Is my head bleeding yet? It should be from banging it against that wall.

What attitude are you talking about here? I have said this so many times already ... I don't care how many people stay and go. That has nothing to do with it. They are free in Christ to choose what they believe.

Do you see in your own words here that you admit to being legalistic and judgmental???

Here's the point AGAIN: legalism bases spiritual rightness on extra-biblical measures ("higher" standards, Bible preferences, dress code, certain style of music, etc.). Herein lies the problem. The attitude stems from this exaltation of extra-biblical beliefs. The "attitude" issues we are talking about stem from different sources.

It should be obvious by now you are NOT going to get what I am saying (just as you did not get what Rhetorician and superdave were saying).

I have said the opposite on more than one occasion.

Swindoll only wishes he had that much impact. Good book, not the best I have read on the subject. Actually it is fairly dated now and has little impact in my opinion.

Most in the evangelical world pay little attention to the fundamentalists (which is what the fundies desire IMO). This is the most time I have given any fundies for a LONG time. I have to admit it is fun though.

 

I would still like a response to this comment I made earlier: Everyone on here who is presently a fundy or a former fundy knows of this tendency. Why is this so difficult to acknowledge?

 

Then I'll state it once again.

You believe that Christians cannot reach the lost if we look and act like them. Those are your words.

I disagree. We reach them by telling them that Jesus Christ died for them, not by them seeing us dress different and having a desire to come based on being "different," which is your belief. We preach reconciliation to God through the shed blood of the Saviour. That is what needs to draw them, not our ideas of what being "different" is.

 

Excellent post.

 

Former, and acknowledged.

 

No problems with that from my for sure. Thats not the point.

Too many of them preach against "sin" that is either their own opinion, or what they have been taught to preach by others who developed the same opinion. I have no problem with encouraging holiness, but lets encourage holiness, not merely the appearance of holiness.

 

Do you see in your own words here that you admit to being legalistic and judgmental???
</font>[/QUOTE]Actually, AAG, I was saying that YOU were still being legalistic and judgemental. After ALL this ya really gotta ask "what attitude" Im talking about? You said that you USED to see people the way you are accusing so many in IFB of.

We've ALL said that there are problems. Thing is that we don't see them as coming from Fundamentalism itself. They come from immaturity amongst individual Christians. THEN the people who grew up and still ARE IFB get accused of still being legalistic and judgemental by those who just chose to leave.

Ya can't leave a movement/church/doctrinal stance just because some others who hold to it are immature. Sure, we ALL have areas where we need to grow. We've said that many times.