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Babylon The Great Is A Murderous, Presumptuous Regime With A Global Reach

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Zog Has-fallen, Feb 3, 2019.

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  1. Zog Has-fallen

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    And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.

    For an honest discussion on Babylon’s identity, let’s investigate the category of all current and potentially emerging great, murderous, presumptuous regimes with a global reach that satisfy all the details of the book of Revelation:

    For an honest comparison of all possible candidates, I’ll go first with this widely believed, seemingly conceivable, logically admissible interpretation:

    Christian Zionists Believe They’re Building A Christian Utopia
    In this version of the Christian Gospel, the exploitation and abuse of other human beings is a good. … And this global, heartless system of economic rationalism has morphed in the rhetoric of the Christian Right into a test of faith. The ideology it espouses is a radical evil, an ideology of death. It calls for wanton destruction, destruction of human beings, of the environment, of communities and neighborhoods, of labor unions, of a free press, of Iraqis, Palestinians or others in the Middle East who would deny us oil fields and hegemony, of federal regulatory agencies, social welfare programs, public education–in short, the destruction of all people and programs that stand in the way of a Christian America and its God-given right to dominate the rest of the planet. The movement offers, in return, the absurd but seductive promise that those who are right with God will rise to become spiritual and material oligarchs. They will become the new class. Those who are not right with God, be they poor or Muslim or unsaved, deserve what they get. In the rational world none of this makes sense. But believers have been removed from a reality-based world. They believe that through Jesus all is possible. It has become a Christian duty to embrace the exploitation of others, to build a Christian America where freedom means the freedom of the powerful to dominate the weak. Since believers see themselves as becoming empowered through faith, the gross injustices and repression that could boomerang back on most of them are of little concern. They assuage their consciences with the small acts of charity they or their churches dole out to the homeless or the mission fields. The emotion-filled religious spectacles and spiritual bromides compensate for the emptiness of their lives. They are energized by hate campaigns against gays or Muslims or liberals or immigrants. They walk willingly into a totalitarian prison they are helping to construct. They yearn for it. They work for it with passion, self-sacrifice and a blinding self-righteousness. “Evil when we are in its power is not felt as evil but as a necessity, or even a duty,” Simone Weil wrote in Gravity and Grace. And it is the duty of the Christian foot soldiers to bring about the Christian utopia. When it is finished, when all have been stripped of legal and social protection, it will be too late to resist. This is the genius of totalitarian movements. They convince the masses to agitate for their own incarceration. — Chris Hedges, American Fascists, pp. 146-147.
     
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  2. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    How's life in the Twilight Zone?
     
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  3. Zog Has-fallen

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    Question 1: Do you believe that the book of Revelation is a fantasy?

    Revelation 18:4-8
    Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,

    “Come out of her, my people,
    lest you take part in her sins,
    lest you share in her plagues;
    for her sins are heaped high as heaven,
    and God has remembered her iniquities.
    Pay her back as she herself has paid back others,
    and repay her double for her deeds;
    mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed.
    As she glorified herself and lived in luxury,
    so give her a like measure of torment and mourning,
    since in her heart she says,
    ‘I sit as a queen,
    I am no widow,
    and mourning I shall never see.’
    For this reason her plagues will come in a single day,
    death and mourning and famine,
    and she will be burned up with fire;
    for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”


    Question 2: Are the following Scriptures True or False?

    Exodus 23:1-2
    You shall not bear a false report; do not join your hand with a wicked man to be a malicious witness. You shall not follow the masses in doing evil, nor shall you testify in a dispute so as to turn aside after a multitude in order to pervert justice.

    Leviticus 19:17
    Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt.


    Please enlighten me yet again. Question 3: Where is your rebuttal to the following testimonies?





     
  4. Zog Has-fallen

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    Indisputably, there are evangelicals that share in Trump's guilt:

     
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I think it is a capital mistake to associate Babylon the Great with any nation. The first readers of Revelation would doubtless have thought of the city and empire of Rome, but since then the Church of Rome, Great Britain, the E.U. and Israel, as well as America have been candidates for Babylon T.G. In my view, she is none of those. Revelation (12). Babylon the Great
     
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  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    oh brother :rolleyes:
     
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  7. Zog Has-fallen

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    Question 4: On what basis might God hold a group responsible for all the righteous blood shed on earth?

    Matthew 23:32, 34-35
    Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. … Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.

    Revelation 18:24
    And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.
     
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes.

    One year we went through the Book of Revelation in the Senior Adult class and spent a good deal of time with the identification of "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH".

    In essence Mystery Babylon is best represented by the body of philosophy called Secular Humanism which has been evolving since day 1 and is in satanic competition with the coming Kingdom of God.

    "Secular humanism, or simply humanism, is a philosophy or life stance that embraces human reason, ethics, and philosophical naturalism while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience, and superstition as the basis of morality and decision making.[1][2][3][4]

    Secular humanism posits that human beings are capable of being ethical and moral without religion or a god. It does not, however, assume that humans are either inherently good or evil, nor does it present humans as being superior to nature. Rather, the humanist life stance emphasizes the unique responsibility facing humanity and the ethical consequences of human decisions. Fundamental to the concept of secular humanism is the strongly held viewpoint that ideology—be it religious or political—must be thoroughly examined by each individual and not simply accepted or rejected on faith. Along with this, an essential part of secular humanism is a continually adapting search for truth, primarily through science and philosophy. Many secular humanists derive their moral codes from a philosophy of utilitarianism, ethical naturalism, or evolutionary ethics, and some advocate a science of morality."

    Secular humanism - Wikipedia

    Yes Wikipedia - which of course would be a fruitful trough of Secular Humanist teaching with good resource, footnotes , bibliography.
     
  9. Zog Has-fallen

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    How can it be understood that Secular Humanism is responsible for all the righteous blood shed on earth?
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    You didn't read their own definition.

    "Secular humanism posits that human beings are capable of being ethical and moral without religion or a god"

    They don't need "god" or religion to tell them what is moral and/or how to be moral.

    "Many secular humanists derive their moral codes from a philosophy of utilitarianism, ethical naturalism, or evolutionary ethics, and some advocate a science of morality."

    e.g. It is "immoral" to build a wall along our southern border but the murder of 50 million babies is both moral and now we have been told even worthy of applause.
     
  11. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Very perceptive my friend! They look at the U.S. Constitution the same way. They say it says things it does not say, and say it does not say what it really says. That is twisted logic for sure.
     
  12. Zog Has-fallen

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    So what does that have to do with the blood of righteous Abel? Was the first murderer Cain a secular humanist?

    Indisputably, professing believers that sin against the greatest light are more offensive to God than confused and/or questioning rationalists that are lost in the darkness of humanistic philosophy.

    Luke 12:47-48
    And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.


    I believe you're ignoring the teachings of Christ and of Paul. There shall be a great apostasy.
     
  13. Zog Has-fallen

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    Revelation 18:7
    In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’

    Matthew 6:23
    but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!


    Secular humanists don't believe that they have everlasting life. They're persuaded that they're going to die.
     
  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes he was - here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia site "Secular humanism considers all forms of religion, including religious Humanism, to be superseded".

    Cain had this very idea about Abels's blood offering. He probably felt it was a product of a "slaughter house" religion and needed to be enhanced and modified eliminating the messy and grotesque blood of Jehovah's requirement of appeasement superseding it as more "humanitarian".

    Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    Indeed - we appear to be at the culmination of that "falling away". Secular humanism is a way of life which crosses all boundaries. Economic, religious, philosophical... It reaches its pinnacle in the Book of Revelation APPEARING as MYSTERY BABYLON...
     
  15. Zog Has-fallen

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    So we agree. Cain represents apostasy from God's revealed requirements and harmonizes with the obvious parallel between Matthew 23:32-35 and Revelation 18:24. So what makes you believe that Christian Zionists are exempt?
     
  16. Zog Has-fallen

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    So you believe that the "falling away" is only secular humanism and doesn't include any wars of aggression veiled by demonically inspired propaganda?
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes I agree Cain represents apostasy and Christian Zionism is NOT exempt but then again neither is Islamic Jihadism.
     
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  18. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Secular Humanism is a huge multi faceted philosophical system to be fully revealed in the time of the Apocalypse,
    It is so to speak - the Mother of all Wars.
     
  19. Zog Has-fallen

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    2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
    Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

    Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
     
  20. Zog Has-fallen

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    Unquestionably, the falling away mentioned here refers to apostate Christians in the Christian Church. The man of sin, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, is strikingly similar to the little horn with a mouth speaking pompous words (Daniel 7:25). That same power, which was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies (Revelation 13:5), will be worshiped (Revelation 13:8). And the coming of that lawless one is accompanied by all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish. That assisting power is later identified as a False Prophet (Revelation 13:13-18).

    These are all the major players in the final scenario. So the woman that is mounted on the resurrected sea beast (Revelation 17) has to be an apostate Christian church that rides the antichrist until the antichrist decides to burn her up with nuclear fire.

    Leviticus 21:9
    If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.


    Recall the Biblical references to the people of God in apostasy as being like a harlot (Ezekiel 16).

    Isaiah 1:21
    How the faithful city has become a harlot! It was full of justice; Righteousness lodged in it, But now murderers.
     
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