1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Baptist Board?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 5 point Gillinist, Jun 29, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,091
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is not a matter of opinion, Sir. Romans 5:19 says people are "made righteous." Anyone who says we are not "made righteous" is a false teacher. Do you disagree?

    Please cite a verse or passage that says or implies we are "imputed with Christ's righteousness."

    Christ commands that we be "intolerant" of false teachers. (2 Peter 2:1-3, Revelation 2:20) Is your view we can no longer identify those who lead or have been led astray?
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,091
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Does God impute (credit) righteousness to individuals? Yes. Does this make them righteous? Nope.

    Here is the actual doctrine of the Bible:

    God credits the faith of some (for example Abraham) as righteousness. So the person is credited with having a righteous faith.
    But only after being placed spiritually into Christ's spiritual body, are those individuals made righteous by the washing of regeneration, being made alive together with Christ.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,091
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 4:5
    But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

    Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our wrongdoings, according to the riches of His grace

    Phl 3:9
    and be found in Him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ's faithfulness - a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ's faithfulness.
     
    #63 Van, Jul 2, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,015
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    First, there is no conflict between being "made righteous" and imputed righteousness of Christ. One has to play mental gymnastics in order to make that case.

    Second, the use of the word "imparted" is much like the word Trinity. Neither are directly found in scripture but are the means to communicate what is in scripture. It cannot be said that because there can be found no direct statements or use of words that means it is false. Usually such arguments are made when the position held is being demanded to be affirmed by everyone else but stands of shaky ground. Weak positions require bluster and heated words to support them.

    2 Corinthians 5:21
    21 For our sake he made Him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

    There is a clear statement of where our righteousness comes from. It come from Christ. We have Christ's righteousness because he took on our sin.

    Philippians 3:9
    9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

    1. we do not have a righteousness of our own. 2. righteousness from God is the righteousness of Christ.

    1 Corinthians 1:30
    30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

    Because we are in Christ, He became wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption for us.


    Now this is the clear teaching of scripture. We are made righteous because we have Christ's righteousness. This semantical splitting of hairs does not illuminate scripture it weakens the view of God.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,091
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another "claim what is not said as being said" post.
    1) Does our righteousness come from Christ? Yes, not at issue.
    2) Do "we have His righteousness because He took on our sin?" Nope, but we were made righteous because He took what God had against us and put it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. (Colossians 2:14)
    3) The difference between made righteous, and declared righteous is the method. Scripture refers to the washing of regeneration, and the circumcision of Christ, and also refers to the blood (sacrifice of His life).

    Romans 5:9
    Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.






     
    #65 Van, Jul 3, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2022
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,091
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When we are made righteous are we credited (imputed) with Christ's righteousness? Nope
    Romans 3:21-22
    But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
    but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction,

    2 Corinthians 5:21
    He made Him who knew no sin to be our sin offering in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

    And how do we "become" the righteousness of God?" (1) When we have been placed into Christ's spiritual body, thus "in Him." (2) When we were made alive by the washing of regeneration. (3) By the circumcision of Christ.

    Colossians 2:11
    and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ,
     
  7. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2022
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    84
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Calvins 5 points are all about Grace?

    I am not sure I agree here
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2022
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    84
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I would call this Christine justification not Pauline. Jesus taught the same thing. In fact his Father is the author of this gospel

    You do realise this goes against calvinist teaching though. This teaches free will.. Calvin rejects free will
     
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    There are not his, but are those held by Calvinists!
     
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    We hold to free will, its just that our free will is limited by our sin natures!
     
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,800
    Likes Received:
    2,470
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you are not righteous, you will not enter Heaven.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christine and Pauline justification are one and the same.

    Galatians 1:6-7

    I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2022
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    84
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Even people with sin natures can chose to freely admit they are guilty and recieve the gift of life.
     
  14. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2022
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    84
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. As well as the gospel of every apostle prophet disciple in the word
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,091
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another non-responsive post, quoting the obvious as if germane. God credits the faith of some (for example Abraham) as righteousness. So the person is credited with having a righteous faith. But only after being placed spiritually into Christ's spiritual body, are those individuals made righteous by the washing of regeneration, being made alive together with Christ.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,091
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    A little thought problem for those seeking to discern truth. Say a person is "dead in their trespasses." Thus the consequence of their being made sinners and of their sins is that they are separated from God. God is holy and they are not and thus God requires that they remain separated. So if a person is "made alive, together with Christ" they are no longer "dead in their trespasses" so somehow they have been justified in the process of being made alive, which of course refers to the washing of regeneration.

    Now think deeply. Were they "declared alive?" How about "imputed with life?" What about accepting that they were "made alive?"

    Only those blinded by presuppositions will not be able to grasp this obvious truth. Made righteous means made righteous. Made alive means made alive. Washing of regeneration is a divine action, not a declaration.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,800
    Likes Received:
    2,470
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why did that need explanation? It didn't.
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,091
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Faith:
    Baptist
    One day this truth will dawn, the fault finders will find no rewards. Did we need to be told that only the righteous will enter heaven or is that well known?

    A little thought problem for those seeking to discern truth. Say a person is "dead in their trespasses." Thus the consequence of their being made sinners and of their sins is that they are separated from God. God is holy and they are not and thus God requires that they remain separated. So if a person is "made alive, together with Christ" they are no longer "dead in their trespasses" so somehow they have been justified in the process of being made alive, which of course refers to the washing of regeneration.

    Now think deeply. Were they "declared alive?" How about "imputed with life?" What about accepting that they were "made alive?"

    Only those blinded by presuppositions will not be able to grasp this obvious truth. Made righteous means made righteous. Made alive means made alive. Washing of regeneration is a divine action, not a declaration.
     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What happened in the Garden? Did Adam and Eve freely admit their guilt? Or, did God have to call them out of hiding first?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2022
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    84
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did they continue to run. Did Jesus force them to put on the clothes he gave them when he killed the animal?

    You will only see what you want to see
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...