1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Baptist History by Baptists 1a: "the synagogue of Satan"

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Alan Gross, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Now that is critically wrong.

    John lays out a different “end of the world” than what you appoint to this event , in Rev 1:17, and the end of the world follows the millennial reign.

    That event I posted precedes the millennium, precedes the second coming, and preceded the marriage supper.

    Not certain from what book your getting persuaded from, but it doesn’t seem to be following the Scriptures all that closely.
     
  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Those two in Revelation are two of seven times The End of The World is mentioned, in Revelation.

    One 'End of The World', for each of the seven Visions, which all discribe the same period of time, i. e., The New Testament Age.

    There are 65 End of The World passages listed here, in addition to the one you mentioned in Matthew 13.

    9.0.0 > NT Intro iv: SIXTY-SIX NEW TESTAMENT Verses Teach The SECOND COMING of JESUS CHRIST & THE END of TIME.

    Neither, The Apocryphal Genre writings, nor the didactic New Testament Books, or The Gospels, OR The Old Testament, mention, or Teach, the schemes you add in.

    Why not?
     
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Again, you are wrong on multiple points.

    I teach what the earliest church taught.

    It was and is exactly what the OT, the Christ, the NT letters, the writing of John and the early church fathers taught. It is commonly called premillennialism

    Circumstances caused Augustine to be deceived into formatting another scheme called a-millennial. He was wrong.

    Jesuit Luis de Alcasar presented a Roman Catholic scheme devised to thwart the Protestant movement (the reformation) called preterism.

    Darby presented a “dispensational” scheme that caught the attention a a large swath of Protestants but it had serious failings. It is commonly known as Darby dispensation.

    (Note: not all who use the term “dispensation” are Darby dispensational thinking.

    So which do you ascribe?

    The oldest and most factual of all is the premillennial.

    This is not merely my opinion. The vast majority of Bible scholars take these points as factual:
    1) the earliest teaching was premillennial
    2) the teaching is supported by the largest body of Scripture read without manipulation
    3) provides the most consistent and precise rendering of all prophecies
    4) the teaching of the physical return of Christ to rule with the saints is the only presentation which all prophecies can be united.


     
  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    The use of an idea with 'mil'-anything in it, is the principal determinant for identifying a novice in Bible End of Times Teaching.

    I will present that statement, nose to nose, with any living Bible student.

    There is nothing Biblical associated with branding a scheme.

    In the event that an individual gives any consideration to abandoning unsupported and non-existent thoughts, on some lost books of 'The Bible', the sooner, if ever, they can begin to adopt a view of what God Has Revealed.

    Keep at Matthew 13.

    Jesus is Coming to Separate the sheep from the goats.
     
  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I’m not the least interested when you disregard the larger portion of Scripture.
    There is more prophecy concerning the millennial rule than any other topic of concerning the first advent.

    Therefore by the fact of total disregard and lack of acknowledgement to basic Scripture I think we are done.
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is exactly the point I am making.

    In order for you to choose to ignore a larger portion of Scripture, there a lost books of 'The Bible', to which you appeal for an imaginary scheme to occupy your attention.

    The voices in your head have been disregarded by me, years before we have engaged in communication.

    If you notice, you don't mention any Scripture.

    How about I post a thread like this?

    And waste the rest of my life.

    I'll say, "what Scriptures do you misinterpret to invent some 'mil'- associated extra Biblical scheme?"

    Or, "what lost book of 'The Bible' is it from?"

    Or, "when the voices in your head say that The Whole Bible has no application to anyone and is Speaking of the future?"

    And, ask how are Bible Teachings and Messages, like Jesus Saying that He is Returning to Separate the sheep from the goats, able to be dismissed, as inaccurate?

    Who replaced Jesus' Teachings with," no, He is not? "
    ...
    Jesus Christ Can Stand in front of you, right now, and Say, "nothing concerning the letters, 'mil', have any relationship to My Eternal Word of God".

    That's it.

    NOTHING.
    ...
    There never has been.

    That is why there is no reason to fool with it.

    The Book of Revelation is Seven Visions.

    Each Vision is a different perspective Revealed, of The New Testament age, roughly from The Ascention of Jesus to Heaven, until He Returns in Judgment, at THE END OF THE WORLD.

    Each Vision overlaps the others and are sandwiched on top of each other, as it were.

    The first Vision Concludes at The End of The World.

    Revelation 1:7 is The End of The World.

    The First Vision continues through to the end of chapter 3, but that one Vision Covers the rest of Recorded History, until The Consummation of The Age.

    The Second Vision begins at Jesus' Ascention to The Throne in Heaven, AT HIS ACSENTION.

    That Second Vision discribes the same exact Period of time, from another Perspective.

    To The End of The World.

    The next five Visions are presented just like that.

    From Jesus' First Coming, to His Second.

    ...

    Jesus could Say, "if you make up remarkably retarded foolishness, by starting in the beginning of Revelation and chronologically reading one chapter after the other.....

    You have missed Me."

    Would you give one flip?
     
  7. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have no idea where you come up with me consulting "lost books." Such is totally false.

    Again, I have no idea where you come up with me having "voices in my head" that you needed to "disregard."
    Such is totally false.

    Why should I? You completely reject what I did post by attempting to reassign it inappropriately.
    If you are so inclined about plain teaching of Scriptures, how do I expect you to comprehend that which is prophetic.
    You can't begin to understand, therefore, it is not worthy of my time.

    What thread?

    You sure you haven't, already?

    All ready done, you didn't learn. I'll not repeat the lesson.
    Should you care to research on your own, then do so, but don't expect my help.

    Ok, I stopped responding to the rest of the post.

    It is a waste of my time, and at my age, there are better and more pressing appointments that need my attention.

    Should you make a truly concerned effort at taking the Scriptures literally presented in the prophecies as presenting a time line that includes a time of tribulation such as has never been known, huge parts of the earth totally destroyed, massive diseases that ravage populated areas that will make the black plague look like the flu, the series of battles called Armageddon, the physical return of Christ with the kingdom to reign for a literal 1000 years while Satan is bound, followed by the end of the earth, final judgment and the revealing of the new heaven and earth, then we MIGHT have common ground enough to explore how the prophets work through these events.

    As it stand, as a friend of mine used to say, "Good day."
     
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This reply is 'a lost Book of The Bible'.

    Nothing exists anywhere that could even be misinterpreted, to come up with any of these things, 1 thru 7.

    You have no interest in your own advice.

    "Should you make a truly concerned effort at taking the Scriptures literally presented in the prophecies"

    1. as presenting a time line that includes a

    2. time of tribulation such as has never been known,

    3. huge parts of the earth totally destroyed,

    4. massive diseases that ravage populated areas that will make the black plague look like the flu,

    5.the series of battles called Armageddon,

    6. the physical return of Christ with the kingdom to reign for a literal 1000 years while Satan is bound,

    7. followed by the end of the earth, final judgment and the revealing of the new heaven and earth,

    "then we MIGHT have common ground enough to explore how the prophets work through these events".

    You have taken the imagined schemes from you head and written them into this outline, as a 'lost Book of The Bible.'
    ...

    If Jesus Said this to you:

    "Do Not Assume I Accept your Worship, about these non-Bible 'lost Books' of yours."

    Then, with those thoughts as a theory, who would you be Worshipping with these man-made schemes?

    Yourself?

    Another?

    Answer: you don't care.

    If you cared whether you were Worshipping Jesus, then you would consider that you could be dreaming.

    You know you haven't actually seen any of them TAUGHT in The Bible.

    Noone has.

    That is an impossibility.

    They aren't there.

    Thus, the issue is A Test of Love for Jesus.
     
  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But Jesus didn't say those things.

    Rather, He specified what was to come to pass, but not the time. He spoke in terms of what was and will be, but left the time up to the Father.

    Do you testify of that which the Word (Jesus) presents? Or do you manipulate them into some scheme that fits into your intellectual ability?

    When the OT prophets spoke of the first advent, do you agree with them?

    When the OT prophets spoke of a second advent, a time of rule, and other such matters, do you agree with them?

    When John presents the physical coming of the King of kings, the rule, the final judgement,... do you agree with him?

    If not, then by what authority do you present?

    A prophet, a messenger from God had two tests. One was a sign, the other was what presented had to be consistent with what was formerly presented.

    Do you have a sign?

    Because you certainly have not presented anything of the prophetic statements consistent with what is found in Scriptures.
     
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I didn't make up stuff to stuff into them.

    If you cared enough about God, you wouldn't demand that that is the perfectly great thing to do, either.

    However, two words that you may not have had anything to do with since I last posted here, have and will, be the difference.

    Let's take a guess and see if you have had these two words as a part of your knowledge of 'prophecy', since I gave you some hypothetical questions: 'ask God'.
     
  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of course you didn’t “make up stuff!” You just ignored what was presented.

    So, since you claim not to manipulate Scriptures, how does your presentation fit that related by John in Revelation 18 to the end of the book?

    You make some claim about my relationship with God, you perhaps need to look in the mirror, because as the Word said, you forgot what image is portrayed.
     
  12. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,374
    Likes Received:
    312
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This seems to be a two man thread.
    However I swill join in.
    The great tribulation in Oliivet was on the Jews in AD 66-70. with any careful reading of it.
    The great tribulation in Revelation is on the church. It began with the Jews, tghen Imperial Rome, then papal Rome, and still continues today under many regimes.
    Jesus said the saints would be raised on The Last Day, confrmed by Martha, Jesus also said the judgment would be on The Last Day. There can only be one Last Day.
    Yes Alcasar was a Jesuit who promoted preterism, but Jesuits Belarmine, Ribera, Walpole and others promoted, or invented futurism to counter the reformation.
    Manuel de Lacunza was a Jesuit futurist. All these were attempts to thwart the teaching of the great reformation.
    Someone at our church, a few weeks ago, was having a converstion on Antichrist. I listened withou commenting, but one of them turned to me and asked "What do you think?" I said "I believe the same as the reformers." It seemed that he did as well, but the pastor doesn't.
     
  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    REVELATION 17:1 – 19:21 / is The Vision of “The FALL of BABYLON”.

    This is The Sixth of Seven Visions which makes The Sixth of Seven Sections in THE Revelation.

    9.0.16g The Fourth Enemy to God’s People that The Book of Revelation Reveals is: The GREAT HARLOT, BABYLON The GREAT.
     
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    There are Seven depictions of The End of The World in Revelation.

    One for each Vision.

    I gave you a list of 66 others, from The Gospels and New Testament.

    This is an interesting one, in Matthew 24.


    Note: nothing prior to Matthew 24:35 has anything to do with The End of Time, which begins in Matthew 24:35:

    35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

    Then, Jesus Discribes:

    THE LAST DAYS.
    Matthew 24:37-39.
    “But as he days of Noah were,
    so will also
    the Coming of the Son of Man be.”

    This is the teaching on it:

    They were marrying and giving in marriage, “As in the days of Sodom”.
     
  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Oh yeah, I just wondered if you had asked God.

    If you do, ask him about my theory that each of The Seven Visions cover the same period of time, between Jesus' First Advent and Ascension, to The Second Coming of Jesus, at The End of The World.

    Because, after your Revelation 18 reference (The Vision of The Fall of Babylon, 17-19), Revelation 20 begins again back at The Time of Jesus First Advent.

    And God Knows it Ends with The Consummation and The End of The World.

    Satan is shown to already been Bound
    by JESUS CHRIST
    during JESUS’ First Attack
    against the Kingdom of Darkness
    in JESUS’ First Coming, at His First Advent, during His Earthly Ministry, and Passion, and Resurrection from The Dead (20:1-3).


    1 "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

    2" And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

    Without going out of your mind, is there a reference here back to The Time of Jesus' First Advent?

    Ask God.

    He Wrote it.

    O. K., maybe you don't see it.

    "The Lord Jesus Christ himself is this angel, who is the angel of God's presence, and of the covenant;

    "and who is in this book called an angel, Revelation 7:2 to whom all the characters here well agree, and to whom the work of binding Satan most properly belongs;

    "for who so fit to do it, or so capable of it, as the seed of the woman, that has bruised serpent's head, or as the Son of God, who was manifested to destroy the works of the devil, yea, to destroy him himself;

    "and who dispossessed multitudes of devils from the bodies of men, and is the strong man armed that dislodges Satan from the souls of men, and is the same with Michael, who drove him from heaven, and cast him out from thence before, Revelation 12:7." Gill

    I see Jesus' Work of Accomplishing Eternal Salvation through The Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus as binding Satan's ability to deceive when it is Present and Announced.

    The Accuser is restricted in his accusing.

    When The Gospel of Jesus is not Announced and God Withholds His Retraining Grace-Retraints on the Devil, at times, he his 'loosed', to have his evil influence felt.
     
  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Enough said.

    You obviously disagree with John’s presentation.

    I’ll stick with Scriptures as John delivered.

    You can make inquiry as to your “theory.”

    For, if you (as has been shown) do not agree with John’s presentation as indicated by referring to the Revelation, then you suffer, not me.
     
  17. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God's Presentation, through John, is Seven Simultaneous Visions.

    I just suggested 'asking God', because there is a component of The Bible that includes Him.

    ...

    In keeping with the theme of the thread Series, I place the references below to The Kind of churches God Recognizes and Accepts as those Being Built = Edified by Jesus and Preserved by The Superintendence of The Shakina Glory of God, God The Holy Spirit, in red.

    Note: Any word or reference that is in red
    DOES NOT REFER

    TO ANYTHING "CATHOLIC", OR "PROTESTANT",
    OR "baptist" with a small bee ( baptist in name only).

    Their place in
    Baptist History and Bible Revelations are as persecutors of The Lord and His people and His churches.

    This is a Google search page for "John Calvin killed Baptists". Google is Google, but that type of History will be covered in this Series.

    ...


    This thread is 1a in a Series
    "Baptist History by Baptists" 1a:
    "the synagogue of Satan"

    The Book of Revelation is Written to The Kind of Assemblies that Jesus Founded and Organized, as The Fulfillment of Prophecy.

    This first in a Series on Baptist History begins to show how
    The Kind of Assemblies that Jesus Founded and Organized began to be perverted, organizationally.

    "the synagogue of Satan" is the result.

    Satan's false religious organizations and illusions of invisible organizations are not Jesus' churches.

    The Offspring of Satan's false religious organizations and illusions of invisible organizations are not Jesus' churches.

    Saved soul's within Satan's false religions and Harlot Daughters are Commanded by God to "Come Out of her"

    Saved soul's inside and outside the false religious organizations AND outside the Lord's churches are a part of The Kingdom of God.

    The Lord's Biblically Defined Divine Institutions are always Scripturally Organized assemblies of Baptised Believers whose members bring Glory to God in JESUS' churches located around The World, during The New Testament Era of churches, throughout all Ages.



    The Lord Says,

    "He that has an ear,
    let him hear
    what the Spirit Says

    to the churches;

    He that Overcomes
    Will Not Be Hurt of the Second Death..."
    ...
    "And he that Overcomes,
    and
    Keeps My Works to the End,

    to him
    Will I Give Power

    Over the Nations."
    ...
    Since this idea is so important

    —namely, that the Revelation
    is essentially an extended Prophecy

    —let us develop it a little further
    by looking at the three fundamental ways
    in which

    THE LORD GOD, JESUS CHRIST
    here Prophesies to His Beloved Bride.
    ...

    The Prophet JESUS CHRIST
    Teaches His Churches.

    ...
    First, Jesus Christ Teaches His Churches.
    ...
    Here I especially have in mind the way
    JESUS Builds Up His Churches Militant
    in her understanding
    of her True Place in the World
    and
    in History;
    in other words,
    the way in which JESUS
    Gives her a Biblical Worldview.
    ...
    In this regard, Revelation 12 is central.
    ...
    It begins with a Vision of the Bride,
    God’s Elect who have been
    Called Out of the World,
    to Assemble as JESUS'
    Organized Institution.

    ...
    Please see:
    AWARE of the churches
    of the GODHEAD BODILY.

    From the very outset,
    we see her as God Sees her:
    She is a Heavenly Woman
    with an Earthly Mission, in Revelation 12:1;
    ...
    "And there Appeared
    a Great Wonder in Heaven;
    a Woman Clothed with the Sun,
    and
    the Moon under her Feet,
    and
    upon her Head a Crown of Twelve Stars."
    ...
    In her OT embodiment,
    she gives birth
    to the promised Seed of the Woman
    —to Christ (12:5a; Gen. 3:15).
    "And she Brought Forth a Man Child,
    Who was to Rule All Nations
    with a Rod of Iron."
    ...
    When she does, the Dragon

    and his demonic minions
    try to kill the infant Jesus,


    but cannot, in Revelation 12:4;

    "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven,

    and
    did cast them to the earth:
    and
    the dragon stood before the woman
    which was ready to be delivered,
    for to devour her child
    as soon as it was born."

    Yes, they succeed in
    putting the Lamb of God to Death,


    but they altogether fail
    in “devouring” JESUS,


    for JESUS Rises from the Dead

    and Ascends to the Father’s Own Right Hand,

    where JESUS now Sits as High Prophet, Priest,
    and
    King of Kings in Heaven.

    con't:

    9.0.16c The Book of Revelation as a Prophecy to the Lord’s Churches. “And there was War in Heaven”.


    JESUS now Sits as High Prophet, Priest,
    and
    King of Kings in Heaven,

    In His Thousand-Year Reign.


     
  18. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,374
    Likes Received:
    312
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The RC's claim that refers to Mary. Many statues of her show her just as in that description, but not only of the moon at her feet but also the serpent. An image of this in a stained glass window in Strasbourg cathedral is said to be why there are only 12 stars in the EU flag When the EU began, they had a star for each nation. When it got to 10, some said it was proof that the kingdom of the 10 toes had arrived, but it went on till there were 12 nations. Now there are 28, soon to be 27, (I hope.) But still only 12 stars.

    N.B., The treaty that started the whole European plot was the Treaty of Rome.
     
    #38 David Kent, Nov 2, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
  19. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Bumping this reformated OP."
     
Loading...