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Before faith came - Gal. 3:23

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2011
    Gal. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    According to Moriah's interpretation of Galatians 3:23 there was no saving faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ prior to the cross. Of course the immediate context exposes that interpretation as competely false.

    For example concerning faith in the gospel Paul begins this section with these words:

    Gal. 3:6 [B]Even a[/B]s Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    Moriah and those of his theological ilk must flatly deny the words "EVEN AS" because the believe no such thing concerning faith prior to the cross.

    However, more importantly, Galatians 3:22 is completely ignored as it introduces verse 23 and declares that prior to the cross that the promise of God (justification by faith) was obtained by "them" based on their faith in Jesus Christ.

    22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    In the preceding context "that promise" is righteousness obtained by faith or JUSTIFICATION by faith which could not be obtained through obedience to the Law because the law had no ability to convey life to its observers:

    21....for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

    Instead, those attempting to be justified by obeying the law could not be justified at all because the Law is NOT OF FAITH and justification is by faith:

    11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
    12 And the law is not of faith:

    Therefore, as long as a person is attempting to be justified by law observance they cannot be justified by faith but are shut up under the Law to condemnation instead of justification:

    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed

    The law was merely a schoolmaster to lead us to faith in Christ rather than a means to be justified. As a school master it was designed to define sin and condemn sinners so they would turn from the law to faith in Christ.

    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster

    Paul was speaking about the Judaizers among them who were still attempting to be justified by observing the commandments of God. As long as they were attempting to be justified by the commandments of God they were shut up under the law and shut up away from faith because the law is not of faith.

    However, if God used the law to reveal to them they always come short and the more they try the more they are condemned under the law and the law does not provide justification for life but condemnation to wrath and turn from their own attempts to keep the law and believe in Christ's satisfaction of the laws demands fully for them then they would be justified by Christ's obedience instead of their vain attempts.
    #1 The Biblicist, Jun 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2012
  2. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

    Dec 24, 2011
    The Old Testament righteous people who died before Jesus came to earth, they did not in their time get to see the promised salvation through Jesus Christ, the grace that was to come

    1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you,5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

    10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

    2 Peter 1:19 And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

    Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him

    1 Corinthians 4:1 So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God.

    Paul says about the faithful in the Old Testament times, "These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised.* God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect."* Hebrews 11:39-40.

    God's grace through faith in Jesus made the spirits of the righteous, those who had died before Jesus, they in the spirit were made perfect together with Paul and the other first Christians (Hebrews 12:23; 11:39-40).*

    The Old Testament faithful were alive in the spirit watching from heaven.* Paul says, "Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses..."* Jesus also tells us Abraham waited to see his day, Abraham saw it and was glad (John 8:56).* Abraham died, yet was alive in the spirit.
    #2 Moriah, Jun 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2012
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

    Apr 30, 2011
    the bib

    Law here is not limited to the law of moses either, but any law. The word law means:nomos:

    anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

    a) of any law whatsoever

    1) a law or rule producing a state approved of God

    a) by the observance of which is approved of God

    2) a precept or injunction

    3) the rule of action prescribed by reason

    b) of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents

    c) the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love

    d) the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT

    If one believes they are Justified by keeping any command, even the command to believe on Jesus Christ as per Acts 16:31

    31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    In the original believe here is an imperative, a command ! So if we believe we are Justified by or BECAUSE we obeyed a command to believe, you may as well say you are saved because you kept the Law of Moses and therefore forfeit Salvation by Grace through Faith !
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    Do you hold that the OT believers were saved by god due to them being faithful to keep the provisions of the Law?
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member

    Nov 13, 2011
    The New Testament writers completely and thoroughly repudiate your heretical conclusion (Acts 10:43; Romans 4; Gal. 3; Heb. 11; etc.).

    Neither do the following scriptures provide proof for your heretical theory.

    1. The old Testament gospel was predictive of the grace in the HISTORICAL incarnation and Person of Jesus Christ who would come and fulfill that predictive gospel. However, by faith O.T. sainst received justification by faith (Rom. 4) which is imputed righteousness and remission of sins (Rom. 4:5-8; Acts 10:43). This is the essence of what Peter speaks about in the passages you quote him.

    2. The New Covenant public ratification in the incarnated Person of Jesus Christ was future from the Old Testament and so was its PUBLIC administration and mission which was Gentile centrix as opposed to Israel centrix.

    3. The New Coveant redemptive APPLICATION has been administered from Geneesis to the cross and that is precisely why the writer of Hebrews call it the "blood of the EVERLASTING covenant" rather than the "new" covenant - Heb. 13:20.

    4. The Mystery revealed in the New Testament was the New Covenant Administration through the "church" which would include Gentiles with Jews on an EQUAL basis with eah other and the change from a JEWISH centrix to a GENTILE centrix in regard to the primary sphere of redemption on earth.

    You are misinterpreting Hebrews 11:39-40 as the "promise" is exlicitly defined that it refers to being made "PERFECT" or glorification by resurrection and I quote:

    39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
    40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

    Of course the interpretation of "the promise" by the writer himself means nothing to you because you hold a perverted gospel.

    Again you pervert the scriptures. The writer of Hebews specifically and literally say these "spirits" were "just" men or men JUSTIFIED, just as Paul says Abraham was "justified by faith" and defines justification in Romans 4:6-8 to include imputed righteousness and remission of sins just as Peter says in Acts 10:43:

    Heb. 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

    Jesus said no such thing! You cannot find the word "waited" in John 8:56 - that is a lie! the words "to see" is Aorist subjunctive and "saw" is Aorist indicative. He "saw" it by faith as the gospel was preached to him right then (Gal. 3:8) and God made a covenant with him by faith "IN CHRIST" (Gal. 3:17) 430 years before Moses and the Law ever existed. He was justified right then when he believed, meaning he had the rightoeusness of Christ imputed to him and received remission of sins right then (Acts 10:43; Rom. 4:5-8,12) and the word "HAD" in Romans 4:11 proves that beyond dispute.

    11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

    Your whole theory is pure imagination at best and heresy at worst.
    #5 The Biblicist, Jun 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2012