Believe?

I think the emphasis might not be on James use of "believe" for the demons but rather "tremble." Do they tremble out of fear and recognition of their certain doom realizing their fate is sealed? So in fact even the demons prove their faith with their works - or in this case their attitude towards their certain doom. Therefore, James point is not irrelevant. He is not arguing that demons enact a saving faith b/c they cannot be saved. He is arguing that the demons enact a living faith that brings about a proper emotion or result - the fear of God's wrath.

 

Let me also add something to the difference between "believe" and "believe in...". James also gives no object to the demons faith. It is simply "they believe." The content of their faith is not as important as the result of their faith. So I'm not sure that there should be a major theological distinction between "believe" and "believe in" especially considering the fact that these are written by two different apostles w/ very different writing styles.

I commend you on your third purpose. I know I've not arrived (not even close). I enjoy hearing others thoughts on the matters - especially on those who are more learned and those who have wrestled with the passage for more years than I've even been alive.

 

Okay, I understand. Keep the questions coming!

 

According to Daniel Wallace's big Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, "When a verb of motion is used with a stative preposition, again the verb is usually dominant: The entire construction indicates motion. For example, pisteuw + en is the equivalent of pisteuw + eiV (cf. Mark 1:15, John 3:15). The idea is 'put one's faith into' (emphasis by Wallace--JoJ) even though en is used." (p. 359).

Other passages with pisteuw eiV given to study in a footnote include: Matt. 18:6, Mark 9:42, John 1:12, 2:11 & 23, 3:16, 4:39, 8:30, 9:35, 11:25, 12:44, Acts 10:43, 1 John 5:10 & 13.

So, according to Wallace, pisteuw being a verb of motion, it has an extra emphasis when followed by a preposition. This means that believing in Jesus is more than just believing a fact, which would be pisteuw with a simple direct object. 1 John 4:1 is an example of pisteuw with the direct object.

 

That's good stuff and all, but James gives no object for a preposition to be linked with a verb. James just says the "demons believe." Now this might be relevant if James said that "they believe God is one" but it just says "they believe". There is no object and therefore no need for a preposition. So Wallace's point is better served for the emphasis on John 3:16 but not so much for James 2:19.

 

To jump in....

James does say what the object of believe is, but he does not do so grammatically; he does it contextually.

[19] You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! (James 2:19 ESV)
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James is writing to Jewish believers in Christ (v. 1 "To the 12 tribes in the dispersion). The Jews believe that "God is one"

[4] “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (Deuteronomy 6:4 ESV)
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This understanding of God being "one" was fundamental to the Jewish faith. But, in the context of James 2, James is saying that one's faith must demonstrate itself in action (fruit), not idle talk.

James is saying that the Demons also believe God is one. So, as I mentioned before, James is telling his audience "If you "believe" God is one, Congratulations! Even the Demons do that and by claiming to believe God is one you show that you have the same faith a demon has. Why don't you demonstrate your faith through your life...not through your lips."

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Well said. I agree.

 

I would think the Shema would be an essential point to the mind of a Jew. Belief in that is big. That is why James says "you do well." Or do you think that to be satirical and not a complement of correct belief?

Plus, if the point here is that the demons believe yet show nothing in their faith, then why do they shudder? Instead of the example that the demons belief is nothing because their faith is not grounded in the gospel but simply monotheism, could James be doing the opposite? Could he possibly be saying that even the demons believe the essential elements of God's Word and prove their faith that they fear God's wrath? Could he be arguing to the point that even the demons are proving their faith - you ought to be as well.

And then further, syntactically it would be bad grammar to make "God is one" into a prepositional phrase of some kind. Was the OP not about making a major distinction in the variation of meanings for pisteuw??? I don't think the absence of a preposition in James reinforces that since it wouldn't work there anyways.

 

I think it was neither a compliment nor satire. Remember, by this time, Judaism had been horribly hijacked by the Pharisees so that it did not resemble the Judaism of the Law of Moses. The Pharisees placed much, if not all, their faith in the word and writing of the elders, not the scriptures themselves.

So, in effect, the Pharisees were teaching that to be "saved" one only had to affirm certain facts and keep the Law perfectly. But, in this, they grossly missed the intent of the Law--which is why you see most of Jesus' preaching in the Gospels as being against the Pharisees.

So, it is not out of the realm of possibility that the Pharisees thought that as long as one believed the right thing, what they did--their actions--did not matter. In fact, we know the Pharisees did precisely this. What James is preaching against is what we might call "anti-lordship salvation." James preached, rather strenuously, that true faith must be demonstrated in the life of the Believer.

Demons have no "faith," per se. They acknowledge the fact that God is one, not the biblical implications thereof. So, they shudder because God is that magnificent, not because they have "fear" of God.

Remember, there is no plan of salvation for demons. Salvation is never offered to them under any circumstances. To argue that demons have faith is to argue they could be saved. We know from scripture they cannot be and will not be saved, there is no such grace from God for them.

So, no, James is not arguing what you suggest. James is arguing that simple agreement on facts is not sufficient to save. He is saying that faith must be demonstrated.

I'm not sure where you're getting that "God is one" is being made into a prepositional phrase. There is no preposition in the phrase "You believe that God is one." Further, I don't think anyone is suggesting that we make "God is one" into a prepositional phrase. Please elaborate.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

I am enjoying the discussion. This is good stuff. I'm just trying to get us to reconsider our views.

 

The devils cannot believe on Jesus because he did not die for them. They cannot rely or depend upon his sacrifice to save them, because he did not die for them. They can believe he exists, they can believe he is the true God, but they cannot rely upon Him to save them.

And this is how it is with men as well. You can believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but that does not mean you have placed your trust in him and depend upon him to save you. You might believe in Jesus but trust in your works to save you.

To believe in Jesus is to take one more step that just believeing he is the Son of God who died for you, you must cease from all self effort to save yourself and cast yourself completely upon Jesus and rely and depend upon Him only to save you.

It is like a parachute. You may believe a parachute is safe and will get you to the ground safely. Is that actually depending on the parachute? No. To truly trust the parachute you must jump out of the plane and depend upon it only to get you to the ground safely.

The devils cannot do this. There is no sacrifice provided for them, no parachute.

 

I think this is correct. Demons were of course angels before they fell. And angels were made for a different purpose and thus with a different existence than humans. The Bible makes this clear in such passages as Matt. 22:30. Concerning belief in particular, note 1 Peter 1:12, which teaches that the angels are interested in belief, but can't.

The very Greek word for angel means "messenger," and is even used that way of humans. But the very fact that they are named "messenger" means that their reason for existence is totally different from that of humans. Theirs is but to obey and worship, not believe or think or meditate or persuade. They don't even rejoice when people get saved, as some people mis-interpret Luke 15:10, where the angels don't rejoice, but the rejoicing takes place in their presence.

 

Hello, John of Japan,

I think that I agree with everything up until the highlighted portion. That angels think or meditate is the very thing you referenced in 1 Peter 1:12.

I think, that we see here that, angels desire to look into the things of the gospel. IOW, scriptural evidence that angels do both think, and meditate.

I also think of Eph. 1:20,21 and especially, Eph. 3:10 as references to angels. That God is showing/demonstrating His wisdom (other places called 'foolishness') via the gospel and His Church - unto these very creatures who are intently desiring to look into how this whole thing, a) works; and b) works out.

It is mind boggling to both us (or at least me!), and them, that the foolishness of preaching, and the efficacy of God's love/Christ's blood, could accomplish what God intends it to accomplish - in the hearts of fallen, individually free-willed men.

I also, don't know what rigor you attach scripturally to "they don't even rejoice." There may not be a lot of evidence in the affirmative - but what is your evidence to the contrary?

Also, didn't the devil "persuade" Eve, in the garden?

I'm just asking and curious, because you seem pretty confident about these things.

 

Hello yourself!

I stated it poorly. I should have said "meditate on spiritual things." I think they simply accept things as they are. They have no need to grow in grace, learn more about God, consider the sacrifice of Christ, etc. They can think and are curious about spiritual things, of course, but 1 Peter 1:12 doesn't prove to me that they think deeply or meditate about spiritual things. They are "ministering spirits," that's all.

I agree that these passages are referring to angels, but I'm not sure how simply knowing God's wisdom means they can do anything about it. I'm sure they can glorify God by knowing His wisdom, but I don't think the Bible tells us more in this passage than that they know the facts of that wisdom.

And I certainly agree that it is amazing what God does through His precious Son! :jesus:

The angels may rejoice, but there is nowhere in the Bible that says so. Concerning Luke 15:10, the Greek phrase is enwpion twn aggelwn (enopion ton aggelon), literally "before the angels." The word enopion is translated often as "before" or "in the sight of," in particular about God. So for example in Luke 1:19 Gabriel stands before God. Luke uses it 20 times in his Gospel, and always in this meaning--a place in front of. So in Luke 15:10, it is not the angels rejoicing, but those in Heaven, believers no doubt.

Yep, Old Nick can be very persuasive. But he's a lousy thinker or he wouldn't have thought he could do a lot of the things he tries to do in the Bible. I mean, defeat Jesus in battle? Really!

Too confident of myself, I'm sure.