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Biblical vs Reformed Salvatio. Cont...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    This is mainly a response to the unbiblical teaching by some of the “Reformed”, who teach that a sinner is first “regenerated” by the Holy Spirit, which then “makes them alive”, to call on the Lord for salvation. First off there is a problem here. The Holy Bible is very clear, that when it uses the term “regeneration” in relation to the salvation of sinners, it means being “born-again”, which is the same as being “saved”. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit”. Here we have the term “regeneration”, from the Greek, “παλιγγενεσία”, which literally means, “again birth”. This “regeneration” is the work of God the Holy Spirit, Who uses the blood of Jesus Christ to “λουτρόν”, (bathe) the repentant sinner, and to “ἀνακαίνωσις” (renew) them by His conversion. =

    Secondly, appeal is made to Ephesians 2:1-6 as a “key” passage to support this theory, that the sinner is first “regenerated”, where Paul speaks of “making alive” the sinner, who is dead in their sins. Nowhere in this passage is there even a hint to say that the sinner is first “made alive”, and then “able” to call on the Lord for their salvation. Rather, Paul is here showing how Christians used to live, “in which you once walked” (v.2), “we all once lived” (3), and how God Who is rich in His Mercy, has saved us to be His children, apart from any our merited good works! In Colossians 2:13 Paul uses very similar language, “And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together (συνεζωοποιησεν) with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses”.

    The aorist participle in the course of a narration sometimes expresses a simultaneous action…Col. ii.13” (G Winer; A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, p.430)

    “χαρισάμενος: “forgiving”. Forgiveness is contemporary with quickening” (Expositors Greek Testament)

    “Paul identifies our being made alive with Christ as being caused by, or synonymous with, or simultaneous to, God’s having forgiven us our trespasses” (College Press Commentary)

    Here Paul tells us that the sinner is “made alive” in Jesus, at the same time that they are forgiven ALL of their sins (πάντα τὰ παραπτώματα). And not before as taught by some. There is no sequence of events in the Greek. It is very clear from this, that both passages, Ephesians 2 and Colossians 2, teach that the sinner is “made alive” on having their sins forgiven, not before of after!

    Ephesians 1:13-14 further clarifies this, “In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory”. The KJV is wrong to suggest that there is a time sequence here, but the Greek is very clear, it is “on believing in Him, [you] were sealed”, that is, “made a possession” of God the Holy Spirit. The sealing was the result of believing, and that was the result of hearing the gospel. The action of believing and sealing by the Spirit, happen simultaneously. Which is, “you heard…you believed…and then you were sealed.”. No time lapse in the Greek! The repentant, believing sinner becomes a child of God, when they are “regenerated” and “washed” and “renewed” by God the Holy Spirit.

    The clearest teaching in the New Testament on the “order of salvation” of the lost sinner, is found in Acts chapter 2.

    In this chapter of the birth of the Christian Church, we have the clearest Bible Teaching on how a lost sinner is born-again, and becomes a child of The Living God.

    Acts chapter 2 records the first “sermon” that is preached, which is by the Apostle Peter. Here we have Peter preach on the Deity, Life, Death and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    In his sermon, Peter quotes extensively from the Prophet Joel, where we read, “and it shall be, everyone whoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord, shall be saved” (v.21, literal Greek)

    The quote is from Joel 2:32, which has “Yahweh”, and Peter here uses it for Jesus Christ, which Paul also does in Romans 10:13. Clear evidence that the Apostles believed Jesus Christ to be Yahweh, the Eternal, Unchanging, God!

    It is clear that those who heard this Gospel Message, and were convicted by God the Holy Spirit, were to “invoke”, the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.

    After Peter had finished this message, those who were present, we are told, “were cut to the heart (κατενυγησαν την καρδιαν)” (verse 37), that is, their hearts were “pierced, stung sharply”, by the convicting of the Holy Spirit, through the preaching of Peter. Jesus Himself says in John chapter 16, “And when He (the Holy Spirit) is come, He will reprove (ἐλέγχω, to convict, find fault with) the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me”. Here in Acts is the fulfilment of these words of Jesus

    After their “conviction” by the Gospel Message, we are told that they, “said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (37). There are some who suppose that the sinner must “do” nothing themselves. It is very clear that these sinners asked what must they DO. Neither Peter, or any of the other Apostles, say to them, that they must not “do” anything, but simply have “faith”. Instead, in the next verse we have Peter’s response. “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” (38-39). It must not be assumed from Peter’s reply, that the sinners sins are somehow removed in water baptism, which is taught by some. It is the “repenting” which is of their sins, that gets their sins forgiven. This is what the Lord Jesus says in Luke 24:47, “and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His Name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.” The word “remission” is from the Greek ἄφεσις, which denotes, “release, as from bondage, pardon, forgiveness”, as though they had never sinned.

    We are told here, that when these sinners repented of their sins, and received forgiveness from the Lord, that they would also “receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit”. In chapter one of Acts, Jesus tells the Apostles, that not many days later, they would be “baptized with the Holy Spirit” (v 5). This was fulfilled in chapter 2, “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit” (v 4). This is the “Gift” of the Holy Spirit, which Peter speaks of. The receiving of this Gift, we are told in Acts 1, gives “power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” (v 8).

    It is very clear from what the Bible teaches, that a sinner is only saved after they “repent and believe”, and they are not “made alive” prior to calling on the Lord for salvation, as Reformed theology wrongly teaches!
     
  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Do you want to continue your argument about the use of the word "World" in John 3:16?
     
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I have a question relative to this part of the OP.

    Rev 1:5 YLT and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth; to him who did love us, and did bathe us from our sins in his blood, ----- I assume that is the, blood bath?

    However the verse from Titus 3 states, through bath (that is, blood bath just like in Rev 1:5) of (because of the genitive tense) regeneration (that is, again becoming or as you put it again birth)

    Titus 3:5 YLT (not by works that are in righteousness that we did but according to His kindness,) He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit,

    Let's talk a little about renewing of Holy Spirit.
    Jesus said in John 16:7 'But I tell you the truth; it is better for you that I go away, for if I may not go away, the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) will not come unto you, and if I go on, I will send Him unto you; ----Let's compare to John 7:39 YLT and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

    There will not even be the Holy Spirit to receive without bath blood (Going away in the obedient shedding of blood) (resulting in being glorified) (again becoming or as you put it again birth) through regeneration. Then and only then can the Holy Spirit be shed forth on us. Jesus then received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father Acts 2:33 renewal of Holy Spirit Titus 3:5 to be shed forth. See Titus 3:6

    Acts 2:32,33 states the exactly same thing. Rev 1:5 actually says the same thing, The first born out of the dead (again birth) bathes our sins away is his blood.

    If we get that part of the OP correct then we can go to the rest, thereof. It will change things.

    Show me where the word of God does not state what is written above, from the word of God.
     
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Can any of you reading not see the sameness of Acts 2:32,33 Titus 3:5,6 and even Rev 1:5 and 6 for HS if you take under consideration of anointing as kings and priests.
     
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    no, there is a new thread for this. :)
     
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    sorry to ask, but I am not sure what you are trying to say?
     
  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Is this not that new thread?
     
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Not for discussion on John 3.16
     
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are regenerated unto being able to be then born again!
     
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