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Featured Biblical vs Reformed Salvation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jan 22, 2021.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    This is mainly a response to the unbiblical teaching by some of the “Reformed”, who teach that a sinner is first “regenerated” by the Holy Spirit, which then “makes them alive”, to call on the Lord for salvation. First off there is a problem here. The Holy Bible is very clear, that when it uses the term “regeneration” in relation to the salvation of sinners, it means being “born-again”, which is the same as being “saved”. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit”. Here we have the term “regeneration”, from the Greek, “παλιγγενεσία”, which literally means, “again birth”. This “regeneration” is the work of God the Holy Spirit, Who uses the blood of Jesus Christ to “λουτρόν”, (bathe) the repentant sinner, and to “ἀνακαίνωσις” (renew) them by His conversion. =

    Secondly, appeal is made to Ephesians 2:1-6 as a “key” passage to support this theory, that the sinner is first “regenerated”, where Paul speaks of “making alive” the sinner, who is dead in their sins. Nowhere in this passage is there even a hint to say that the sinner is first “made alive”, and then “able” to call on the Lord for their salvation. Rather, Paul is here showing how Christians used to live, “in which you once walked” (v.2), “we all once lived” (3), and how God Who is rich in His Mercy, has saved us to be His children, apart from any our merited good works! In Colossians 2:13 Paul uses very similar language, “And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together (συνεζωοποιησεν) with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses”.

    The aorist participle in the course of a narration sometimes expresses a simultaneous action…Col. ii.13” (G Winer; A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, p.430)

    “χαρισάμενος: “forgiving”. Forgiveness is contemporary with quickening” (Expositors Greek Testament)

    “Paul identifies our being made alive with Christ as being caused by, or synonymous with, or simultaneous to, God’s having forgiven us our trespasses” (College Press Commentary)

    Here Paul tells us that the sinner is “made alive” in Jesus, at the same time that they are forgiven ALL of their sins (πάντα τὰ παραπτώματα). And not before as taught by some. There is no sequence of events in the Greek. It is very clear from this, that both passages, Ephesians 2 and Colossians 2, teach that the sinner is “made alive” on having their sins forgiven, not before of after!

    Ephesians 1:13-14 further clarifies this, “In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory”. The KJV is wrong to suggest that there is a time sequence here, but the Greek is very clear, it is “on believing in Him, [you] were sealed”, that is, “made a possession” of God the Holy Spirit. The sealing was the result of believing, and that was the result of hearing the gospel. The action of believing and sealing by the Spirit, happen simultaneously. Which is, “you heard…you believed…and then you were sealed.”. No time lapse in the Greek! The repentant, believing sinner becomes a child of God, when they are “regenerated” and “washed” and “renewed” by God the Holy Spirit.

    The clearest teaching in the New Testament on the “order of salvation” of the lost sinner, is found in Acts chapter 2.

    In this chapter of the birth of the Christian Church, we have the clearest Bible Teaching on how a lost sinner is born-again, and becomes a child of The Living God.

    Acts chapter 2 records the first “sermon” that is preached, which is by the Apostle Peter. Here we have Peter preach on the Deity, Life, Death and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    In his sermon, Peter quotes extensively from the Prophet Joel, where we read, “and it shall be, everyone whoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord, shall be saved” (v.21, literal Greek)

    The quote is from Joel 2:32, which has “Yahweh”, and Peter here uses it for Jesus Christ, which Paul also does in Romans 10:13. Clear evidence that the Apostles believed Jesus Christ to be Yahweh, the Eternal, Unchanging, God!

    It is clear that those who heard this Gospel Message, and were convicted by God the Holy Spirit, were to “invoke”, the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.

    After Peter had finished this message, those who were present, we are told, “were cut to the heart (κατενυγησαν την καρδιαν)” (verse 37), that is, their hearts were “pierced, stung sharply”, by the convicting of the Holy Spirit, through the preaching of Peter. Jesus Himself says in John chapter 16, “And when He (the Holy Spirit) is come, He will reprove (ἐλέγχω, to convict, find fault with) the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me”. Here in Acts is the fulfilment of these words of Jesus

    After their “conviction” by the Gospel Message, we are told that they, “said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (37). There are some who suppose that the sinner must “do” nothing themselves. It is very clear that these sinners asked what must they DO. Neither Peter, or any of the other Apostles, say to them, that they must not “do” anything, but simply have “faith”. Instead, in the next verse we have Peter’s response. “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” (38-39). It must not be assumed from Peter’s reply, that the sinners sins are somehow removed in water baptism, which is taught by some. It is the “repenting” which is of their sins, that gets their sins forgiven. This is what the Lord Jesus says in Luke 24:47, “and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His Name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.” The word “remission” is from the Greek ἄφεσις, which denotes, “release, as from bondage, pardon, forgiveness”, as though they had never sinned.

    We are told here, that when these sinners repented of their sins, and received forgiveness from the Lord, that they would also “receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit”. In chapter one of Acts, Jesus tells the Apostles, that not many days later, they would be “baptized with the Holy Spirit” (v 5). This was fulfilled in chapter 2, “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit” (v 4). This is the “Gift” of the Holy Spirit, which Peter speaks of. The receiving of this Gift, we are told in Acts 1, gives “power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” (v 8).

    It is very clear from what the Bible teaches, that a sinner is only saved after they “repent and believe”, and they are not “made alive” prior to calling on the Lord for salvation, as Reformed theology wrongly teaches!
     
    #1 SavedByGrace, Jan 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

    Here is an obvious and fundamental biblical teaching, we are made alive, regenerated, born anew when we are united with Christ. In Christ = saved, not in Christ = not saved.
    In Christ = alive, not in Christ = spiritually dead
    In Christ = regenerated, not in Christ not regenerated
    In Christ = born anew, not in Christ conceived in sin. (Psalms 51:5)
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What is being missed.
    Ephesians 2:5 is restated in Ephesians 2:8 that it is "through faith." Faith precedes being saved. A truth which is throughout Scripture.
     
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    did you read the OP? what does the last paragraph say?
     
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Some refuse to accept what the Bible actually teaches because of their personal theology
     
  6. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Blind eyes must be made to see, before a man can look to Jesus.
    Deaf ears must be made to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
    And there must be breath for one to call upon the Name of Jesus,

    And in all this, there must be faith imparted.

    Tell me again where man initiates this?
     
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  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Read John 16.1-10 where Jesus speaks about the convicting of the Holy Spirit.

    Further as seen in Colossians 2.13 it is very clear that making alive is at the same time as being forgiven and Ephesians 1.13 again shows the repentant sinner is sealed by the Holy Spirit upon believing. No Reformed teaching of pre making alive in Scripture
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You argued, "repent and believe" [Right order, Mark 1;15]
    And argued, "not . . . prior to calling on the Lord . . . ." But the believing precedes calling, Romans 10:14.

    You use long arguments, when the the shorter "through faith" will do, Ephesians 2:8.
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I like things in detail :Biggrin
     
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Again, one's ears must be unstopped to hear what the Spirit saith. Faith cometh by hearing.
     
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  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Can you please deal with Ephesians 2.1-5 in light of colossians 2.13. There is no time difference in the Greek text as Reformed theology claims
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    And also the Greek of Ephesians 1.13
     
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I fully believe that faith comes from hearing the Word of God. This is what the Bible Teaches
     
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Where does hearing come from?
     
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  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    the sinner has the ability given by God to "hear" the Gospel, or not to, This is clear in passages like 2 Thess 2

    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
     
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I just saw the title of this thread and it made me laugh out loud.
    It's as if the OP cannot wrap his brain around the truth that Reformed soteriology is in fact Biblical Soteriology in the full context of the Bible.
    I find it fascinating that the OP struggles so much with grace and insists that works must be performed before God can extend grace. No matter how hard the OP tries to spin his works/law based soteriology as some twisted form of grace, it is in truth...not grace at all. Yet, here we are on the (at least) 10th iteration of his attempt to claim his law-based soteriology is biblical while grace-based soteriology is not biblical. I simply roll my eyes and laugh.
     
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  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Glad I could oblige with a laugh. So why not now deal with what I have said
     
  18. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Setting aside the uninformed and incorrect view of the "Reformed" and simply accepting the above as fact at face value, I object to the next sentence ...

    The author is stating facts not in evidence. Nowhere in Titus 3:5 does it claim that the Holy Spirit "uses the blood of Jesus Christ to “λουτρόν”, (bathe) the repentant sinner, and to “ἀνακαίνωσις” (renew) them by His conversion."

    I call upon the author to provide scripture to support his claim that the Holy Spirit "uses the blood of Jesus Christ to “λουτρόν”, (bathe) the repentant sinner" or to admit the claim is not scriptural and retract it.

    I call upon the author to provide scripture to support his claim that the Holy Spirit "uses the blood of Jesus Christ ... to “ἀνακαίνωσις” (renew) them by His conversion." or to admit the claim is not scriptural and retract it.
     
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  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Spritually dead sinners all have no ears to hear!
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    One question are not the sins of sinners washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ?
     
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