Blast from the Past

Other than the fisrt question, possibly in dealing with not taking care of our bodies, can anyone give me any kind of biblical principle prohibiting the rest?

 

I agree 100% with the second question above regarding mission agencies.

We do make the word of God of non effect when we try to stretch God's word to fit our opinions as to what is worldly and what is spiritual. I may think it is worldly to use A/V technology in church. Does that make it worldly?

 

I agree with C4K on this, but I also think it's disingenuous to imply that this is the reason they ask about playing cards. I assume we both know why they asked about cards, and it has nothing to do with wasting time. It's religious paranoia about the tenuous connection between today's playing cards and Tarot cards. I don't tell fortunes or consult the dead. I play Pinochle, Hearts and maybe a few other games.

 

Mabel Williamson served in 1960 as a Bible teacher. She taught for ten years at the Southeast Asia Bible College and also taught at the Singapore Theological Seminary. She began her ministry with the China Inland Ministry in 1934.
She published a book in 1957 titled “Have We No Rights.”
The Table of Contents reads as follows:

1. Rights
2. The Right to What I Consider a Normal Standard of Living
3. The Right to the Ordinary Safeguards of Good Health
4. The Right to Regulate My Private Affairs as I Wish
5. The Right to Privacy
6. The Right to My Own Time.
7. The Right to a Normal romance, If Any
8. The Right to a Normal Home Life.
9. The Right to Live With the People of My Choice
11. The Right to Run Things
12. He Had No Rights.

Of course the last chapter speaks of the Lord Jesus Christ who gave up everything to die for us—all the “rights” that he had in heaven, the glory and majesty of the King of Kings, the Creator himself, who humbled himself and died as a common criminal for the sins as mankind, had no rights (read freedoms).

In her book Williamson describes a meeting where a dozen or so missionaries had gathered for prayer. One of them gave some words of encouragement. He spoke on enduring hardship. He used a Chinese saying “eating bitterness” or suffering hardship, and commented that that was easy enough.

I cringe when I hear people talk about giving up their right (freedom) to play cards, go to a theater, social drinking, wear pants, etc. What rights? What would Jesus do? Play a game of poker? Wile his time away in any of the above frivolous ways?
He said: I am come to seek and to save the lost.
What is our mission in life? To play cards or to seek and save the lost?
If you have time to play cards, do you have time to pray? to read the Bible? to witness?
How do things like playing cards draw you nearer to the Lord, make you more holy, sanctify your life? How does it set an example for other believers to follow?

“For whosoever shall be a friend of the world “IS” the enemy of God.”
Those are strong words.

 

I cringe when I see someone swap the word "freedom" with "right" and think he's got a point to make after changing the terms. Who do you think you're arguing with? Not me. I'm the one who said that the mission question should be posed more like, "Are you willing to give up your freedoms... etc." That doesn't sound like anyone asserting his "right" to play cards.

Again, you're being disingenuous at several levels.

First, you're not addressing my point at all. You're just going off on a pious rant about what Jesus would do.

Second, the thing about cards was never about wasting time. It's always been about Tarot and we both know it. If missions were asking questions about cards and movies because they were concerned about people wasting time, they would have to ask about a whole lot more than cards or movies. Or do you think those are the only two ways people can waste time?

Speaking of which, I have the feeling I'm wasting mine.

 

If I wasted my time bird-watching, that would be a "cardinal" sin, right?
(a little levity to levity the whole lump)

 

The history of present day card-playing having its roots in tarot cards is only one aspect of "association."
I think that is the argument that is being made here, but it is only one.
A greater one is its association with gambling. Let me give you an example that currently happened and now I have to fight against the damage. Some of the young people in our church thought nothing of playing cards. They didn't hold to the same standards as the generation that went before them. One of them went to a family reunion where most of the people there were unsaved. Some of those young people sat down for a friendly game of poker (no money or gambling involved because parents were there). So here is a young person from a youth group playing poker with other unsaved individuals. I have been trying for years to win these people to the Lord. Now what are they to think? The young people that go to our church play poker. They are no different than us, then the rest of the world. Sure, they may not gamble in the presence of their parents, but what do they do when their parents aren't there? The Christian testimony has been ruined because of card playing. Great damage has been done. If their (Christian young people) religion is no better, no different, than ours, then why become a Christian??

We are to be different from the world, not a part of it. Its association with the world is one reason I don't advocate cards. Its association with gambling is easy to see. Are not our lives to be different than that of the world's? Why go out of the way to be conformed to the world, instead of being conformed to Christ?

 

Now I'm cringing! :applause:

 

Best post in this thread, IMO!

 

Huh? I don't get this story at all.

I really don't know if this is an appropriate response to your story, because (as I said), I don't get your point. But if you want a good example of a Christian testimony being ruined, take the one about the fellow in Missouri. He was under the impression that the Bible says it is sinful to smoke, and he was also under the impression that he'd have to become squeeky clean and sinless to even come to Christ. He got that impression from a bunch of self-righteous prigs who elevated things like smoking and card playing to the status of sinful behavior, in spite of the fact that there is no Biblical support for such claims.

I meet people like this all the time. I have yet to hear someone say, "Gosh, I almost came to Christ, but then I realized that some Christians play cards, and it spoiled the whole thing for me."

 

I can't imagine what they would think if they saw one committing adultery, can you?

 

LOL! Well, you won't get any argument from me on that. But the Bible speaks very clearly about adultery. It doesn't say anything about Pinochle.

 

............

 

"Wherefore come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord."
"And be not conformed to this world."

You can read it again, but I will simplify it greatly for you.
--Young people start to play cards.
--Young people learn how to play poker (associated with gambling)
--Unsaved see Christian young people playing poker.
--Unsaved therefore beleive that poker is a Christian activity.
--The conclusion is also drawn that Christian young people gamble because one plays poker to gamble. Poker is associated with gambling. Cards are associated with gambling. Start from the beginning. Cards have an association with gambling.

 

Sometimes I say "I nearly died!" As one might expect, nobody yet has thought that I nearly died. Was I being unethical to claim something untrue? No, because nobody thought it was true and I didn't intend for anyone to think it might be true.

I said on my profile that I was born in 1998. So far, nobody has been tempted to think that I was born in 1998, or even to wonder if I might be some pipe-smoking child prodigy.

Is there something misleading about saying "I nearly died" or "I live on coffee" or "I'm nine years old" or "I think you're two enchiladas short of a combination platter"?

No, there isn't.

(Now, the fact that I was exposed as the Boss of All Jesuits back in April of '06 is another matter altogether.)

 

Oh my - I played Go Fish with my 3 year old grand daughter. I've consigned her to a life of poker and her testimony for Christ is gone even before she gets saved.

 

Frankly, I think we make far too many lists of wot we can do and wot we can't do. I grew up with that mentality. It neither led nor deterred people from a life in Jesus Christ.

The primary teaching ought to be "What think ye of Christ, and whose Son is He?" Surrender totally to the Lord Jesus, and then lets see where we will personally go or not go, do or not do.

Seems I recall a song where the deck of cards was used to explain the Christian religion. One does not have to carry the largest Bible available, fully exposed, to be a witness for the Lord. I have seen some carry a Bible openly and do rather suspicious things. Now where are we? Wot is that saying: "You tell me wot you believe and I will show you who I am by how I live."?

Cheers,

Jim

 

You can make light of it if you wish. The fact that it actually happened only a few months ago; that this is not hypothetical but true; is sad. It has ruined someone's Christian testimony, and made it more difficult to witness to others.

 

I can see why I didn't get the story. That seems like an incredible stretch to me. I just don't see that progression as making any sense. I play poker with my kids. They love the game. We don't even play for toothpicks or pennies, we just play. I'm not afraid my kids will start to gamble.

By the way, I don't know of any scriptures on gambling, either. Well, that's not entirely true. There are at least a dozen places in the OT where they cast lots. And the apostles cast lots to see who would replace Judas. That's not really gambling, but I bet it looked like gambling to anyone who didn't know what they were doing. That destroyed their Christian witness, as the apostles were unable to bear fruit after that incident.

 

How I'd answer...
Do you or your wife smoke?
No.

Do you dance?
What I do wouldn't be considered dancing...but even then, I don't like to dance.

Do you attend movies?
When I can.

Do you attend Boxing Bouts?
No. I wouldn't even pay the outrageous pay per view price, I'm sure not forking out double to see it in person.

Do you attend Wrestling Matches?
No. I do catch it occasionally on TV.

Do you play cards?
No. I love watching Texax Holdem tournaments, though.