Born Again

Some people have a problem accepting the simplicity that is in Christ.

We are saved by grace through faith...plus nothing.

Too simple for some I guess.

 

Yes, I agree. Full baptismal immersion in water is not necessary for one to be saved, but rather faith in Christ alone. :jesus:

 

But, Amy.G, what about James 2:24? "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

You are paraphrasing Ephesians 2:38 which I also embrace. But we can't take a few verses out of context and build a doctrine around them. We must view scripture as a whole and believe all it says. And it's not always simple.

 

No, we are not justified by works at all, of any kind, lest any man should boast. James is saying that works will follow faith, not that faith + works = salvation.

 

Agree. But "of water and of the Spirit" are a singular description and illustration of "from above."

Disagree.

This is not about baptism; this is about being "born from above" (γεννηθη ανωθεν) (gennethe anwthen) ("born anew") ("rebirthed"/"re-gened"/"regenerated").

Regeneration in this passage comes from the same root and has a similar meaning to "born again" in John 3.

 

Exactly, and that would include the "work" of "praying a prayer."
No utterance of man saves. Only God saves, and that is by grace through imputed faith.

 

I disagree. This is a requirement, merely worded differently. The Greek root words of 'ginomai' 'anothen' mean exactly that - "born" and depending on how one chooses to render anothen, either as 'again', ''from above' or 'anew', all renderings of which mean basically the same thing, doctrinally, and all are equated, as I read it, with "born of the Spirit." And as a requirement? Definitely! Jesus said: "You MUST be born 'anew'. or 'You must have a 'new birth', for the natural birth 'ain't gonna' cut it!'

Ed

 

How about we reword that to say this:

"Born again" equates to "regeneration" in the Greek. The words rendered as "born again" do not mean that literally, but do carry that sense, intrinsically.

"Again" or "anothen" is not actually a part of the Greek word "paliggenesia".

Ed

 

Apart from the translation of gennao and anothen, the grammatical construction of verse should be considered.

The Greek construction is:εαν μη τις γεννηθη εξ υδατος και πνευματος ου δυναται εισελθειν εις την βασιλειαν του θεου (John 3:5 ): this is an if/then construction. If this happens then this results. This is a classic third class condition, future more probable.

Notice also that "born" is aorist pass. subj of gennao. The "anyone", tis, the indefinite pronoun is acted upon and therefore contributes nothing to being "born from above." This allusion is clearly monoergistic.

Two good background passages of this verse are:Isaiah 44:3-5 and Ezek 37:9-10, signifying the work of the Spirit of God.

 

I think this view makes the most sense. Here's another verse to support it.

Ephesians 5:25-26 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word."

 

Jhn 4:10Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Jhn 7:38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

 

Helen, you make God a liar with this statement.
Well, not really because it is impossible, but IF your statement were true, it would make God a liar.
Let GOd be true and every man a liar.

If you still seek that which you sought before salvation, then you are seeking the wrong thing.

 

Wow, I give a bit of personal testimony and I am told I make God a liar.

Hardly. I know what I was before. I know what I wanted. I know what I am now.

I find it interesting that when Paul was teaching the men at Athens about their 'unknown God' he told them that God had planned where and when each man would live. Why?
"God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us." Acts 17:27

Perhaps Paul was not telling the truth? According to Calvinism, which I am sure you are espousing, Paul's words must have to be twisted mightily for you to get them to agree with your doctrine.

 

But not water (H2O) baptism...

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:​

Stop and think about what those are saying when they claim that H2O has anything to do with our redemption other than being a picture representing our identification with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.​

Consider this:​

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?​

All the water in the universe cannot remove one sin, only the blood of Christ can do that.​

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,​

Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

To equate water as the means of redemption or the "sacrament" which removes original sin places it on a par with the blood of Christ. Please don't do that.

Secondly, baptism is only valid if done by one who is both authorized and worthy. There are many impediments to "worthy" baptism. What if the one baptized you in water was not saved or a "tare", a pretender, is your baptism valid?

There is only one who is qualified, has the authority and is worthy, from the Scriptures above we can see that John the Baptist knew who He is. The Book of Revelation clearly defines who He is. He is the only baptism you need for salvation.

So, OK for local church membership and as a public witness you should be baptized in water by immersion using the Trinitarian formula in obedience to the Great Commission AFTER you are born of the Spirit

HankD​

 

amen HandD;..........

 

I know this is off topic, but where do you get this from? The same people to which Christ gave the Great Commission are the same people He told to baptize (which is part of the Great Commission). One of the following must be true:
1. Only the apostles present at the Great Commission were authorized to teach the Gospel; therefore, only the apostles present were authorized to baptize.
2. Only ordained church elders are authorized to baptize; therefore, only ordained church elders are authorized/commanded to teach the Gospel.
3. All believers are commanded to teach the Gospel; therefore, all believers are authorized to baptize.

 

Please read again what I said.

Would you let a Jehovah's Witness baptise you?
A Mormon?
A Catholic priest (assuming he was willing to baptize you by immersion.

Probably not.

What if you were baptized by an unsaved man who thought he was saved but was not when he baptised you?

Is your baptism valid under any of these circumstances including the man who only thought he was saved?

You have need of only ONE baptism to be saved by ONE baptizer who is both worthy and authorized, always was, always will be because He is sinless - God come in the flesh. Trust in Him alone.

ASV Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:

KJV Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

That is not to say you should not be baptized in water, the reasons for which were iterated in an earlier post.

HankD
​

 

I choose number 2

 

HankD says:

I would not do that but Jesus did. John 3:5 & Mark 16:16. So did Peter. Acts 2:38 & 1 Peter 3:21. So did Ananias. Acts 22:16. Come to think of it, so did Paul. Romans 6:4 & Colossians 2:12. The blood of Christ purchases our redemption; we receive it through the mode of baptism.

HankD also says:

Scripture please?

 

Are you Baptist at all? And if you are, what type?

You sound like you are church of Christ or something like that.