Bottom line...

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Doubting Thomas:

Which brings us to the original question of the thread. Thanks!

 

[aefting]

Originally quoted by Scott:
Trent 1 says that there can be no justification at all without the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The stuff that is mentioned over and over again by the anti-Catholic side is what to do AFTER the initial justification by Jesus Christ. Trent does not say one is saved apart from Christ.

The term “justification” means something different to a Catholic than it does to a Bible believer. I’ve tried to highlight that distinction in my previous posts but to no avail. To the Catholic, justification is not complete with “the initial justification by Jesus Christ.” You keep saying that Trent does not say one is saved apart from Christ. No one is arguing against that. The problem with Trent is the extra stuff it insists is necessary for justification.

How confident are you that you are following Biblical doctrine 100%. What happens if you die at only 98%. Does God say, "Sorry, fella, but you missed the boat!"? What happens when you change your theological understanding halfway through life? Were you just never saved? Does theology have saving power?

Obviously no one is 100% in all their doctrine. That’s not the point. The point is what does the Bible say is necessary for salvation and what kind of belief the Bible says prevents one from being saved. If you are a believer, by definition, you have to believe in something. If you don’t believe the right things you are not a believer. The Bible says what those things are, not me. Read the book of Galatians and you will see that you cannot be saved unless you believe in Christ and Christ alone.

So if someone believes that Jesus was born of a young woman, and not a Virgin, then that person is not saved? Hmmm... I think more Scripture is needed for this to be proven, don't you?

Not saved. Now, that doesn’t mean that you have to know about the virgin birth to be saved but you can’t deny the virgin birth and be saved. Denying the virgin birth is equivalent to denying Christ’s deity. There are certain doctrinal truths that are essential – they’re called fundamentals of the faith. You cannot deny these and be saved.

The truth of the gospel can be found in the Great Commission and the Great Commandments.

What is your definition of the gospel? Honestly, off the top of my head I can’t think of a single element of the gospel that is found in either the Great Commission or the Great Commandments.

As far as love is concerned for their fellow man, fundamentalist Christianity is about as far removed as one can be. All one has to do is ask the outside world whether Christians love them or not, and how they are treated by fundamentalist Christians. You can learn so, so much from that response.

Which is more loving? Giving a person false hope about their salvation when they believe in a faith+works salvation contrary to the Scriptures, or confronting a person with their need to trust in Christ exclusively for their salvation rather than relying on a system that dooms them to hell? If I don’t do the latter, how does the love of Christ dwell in me?

Andy

 

[Trotter]

Rom 10:8-13
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach:

because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:

for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be put to shame.

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him:

for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

OK, what did it say was the qualifications? If thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Who is the offer open to? For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek (read as the whole world): for the same Lord is Lord of all ( ALL, ALL, ALL ), and is rich unto all that call upon him. And, yes, it is possible for Catholics to be saved (if they believe in Christ alone).

Any questions?

In Christ,
Trotter