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Featured Bought and Then Redeemed!

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Dec 30, 2022.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Christ bought, paid the ransom, for all mankind, thus becoming the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2. However, only when God credits our faith in Christ as righteous faith and then on that basis places us spiritually into Christ, do we receive the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Lets call this second transaction redemption. Thus mankind was bought with a price, but only those placed in Christ are redeemed

    We know from 2 Peter 2:1 that Christ bought those heading for swift destruction, so the ransom was for all humanity and not just for those redeemed. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says individuals are chosen for salvation through the sanctification by the Spirit (God transferring people into Christ) and faith in the truth.

    As Ambassadors of Christ, we beg people to be reconciled to God. How are we reconciled? God places us spiritually into Christ, where we undergo the washing of regeneration. Why does He choose this individual and not that individual? Because He chooses those individuals whose faith He credits as righteous faith.
     
  2. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Galatians 2: 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    Brother Glen:)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for agreeing! How are we reconciled? God places us spiritually into Christ, where we undergo the washing of regeneration. Why does He choose this individual and not that individual? Because He chooses those individuals whose faith He credits as righteous faith.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Folks, a question to ask yourselves is "Does God credit the faith of some humans as righteous faith?" See Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-25.

    [Snip]
     
    #4 Van, Dec 31, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2023
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The above is a very clear explanation of your [snip] doctrine. Thank you for so very clearly expressing this for all to discern [snip]
     
    #5 AustinC, Dec 31, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2023
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry. No one pays attention to your (snip) doctrine. You have been foisting your (snip) claims for a long time now and have been refuted over and over again, yet you keep regurgitating the same (snip) doctrine. Must we constantly repeat the same things that soundly defeated you in the past?

    Snips by admin
     
    #6 AustinC, Dec 31, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2022
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    When someone charges a view as false, the question we must ask is "what is false? The OP says all humanity, those to be saved and those never to be saved were bought by Christ. This is clearly taught by 2 Peter 2:1, those heading for swift destruction were bought. Obvious those saved were bought, 1 Corinthians 6:20.
     
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I snip the word false - think that is sufficent
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    [Snip]

    Does scripture say God desires all men to be saved.
    Does scripture say Christ paid the ransom for all?
    Does scripture say those heading for destruction were bought?

    The answer my friends is not blowing in the wind, the answer is yes.

    Does God credit the faith of some humans as righteous faith? Yes, see Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-25.

    Now, folks, what do you think God does if He credits a person's faith as righteous faith. Does 2 Thessalonians 2:13 suggest an answer. Would God choose someone for salvation based on uncredited faith in the truth? I think not. :)
     
    #9 Van, Jan 4, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2023
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing your contradictions with us, Van. Your claims have been repudiated over and over again, yet you keep preaching something God doesn't teach.
    [Snip]
     
    #10 AustinC, Jan 4, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2023
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Still no citation, no specification, no nothing but regurgitated and unsubstantiated claims.
     
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Or should we say - his interpenetration of Scripture
     
  13. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Salty!... Is that a new word???... Don't you mean interpretation of scripture... Rightly dividing the word of truth... He's penetrating scripture alright using the shotgun approach... Brother Glen:eek:
     
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Yep! I was late for something - did not have time to fix it then
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Returning to topic after the usual suspects have posted non-stop deflection, deception and disparagement posts.

    Christ bought, paid the ransom, for all mankind, thus becoming the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2. However, only when God credits our faith in Christ as righteous faith and then on that basis places us spiritually into Christ, do we receive the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Lets call this second transaction redemption. Thus mankind was bought with a price, but only those placed in Christ are redeemed

    We know from 2 Peter 2:1 that Christ bought those heading for swift destruction, so the ransom was for all humanity and not just for those redeemed. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says individuals are chosen for salvation through the sanctification by the Spirit (God transferring people into Christ) and faith in the truth.

    As Ambassadors of Christ, we beg people to be reconciled to God. How are we reconciled? God places us spiritually into Christ, where we undergo the washing of regeneration.

    2 Corinthians 5:20 (NASB): Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.​

    Why does He choose this individual and not that individual? Because He chooses those individuals whose faith He credits as righteous faith.

    How are we reconciled? God places us spiritually into Christ, where we undergo the washing of regeneration. Why does He choose this individual and not that individual? Because He chooses those individuals whose faith He credits as righteous faith.
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    MOD HAT ON

    Posts have been edited and deleted to clean up thread.

    @Van is correct with this statement:

    When someone charges a view as false, the question we must ask is "what is false?

    Address the post, not the member posting.
    A claim has been made. Argue for or against the claim/ interpretation.

    Simply insulting one another to avoid discussing the actual topic will not be tolerated.

    MOD HAT OFF
     
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  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Does scripture say God desires all men to be saved.
    Does scripture say Christ paid the ransom for all?
    Does scripture say those heading for destruction were bought?

    The answer my friends is not blowing in the wind, the answer is yes.

    Does God credit the faith of some humans as righteous faith? Yes, see Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-25.

    Now, folks, what do you think God does if He credits a person's faith as righteous faith? Does 2 Thessalonians 2:13 suggest an answer.? Would God choose someone for salvation based on uncredited faith in the truth? I think not.

    Here is the biblical truth. Christ died as a ransom for all, thus Christ provides the means of salvation for everyone who believes into Him. Thus, while everyone was "bought" only those transferred into Christ's spiritual body are "redeemed." And the key is that it is God alone who credits or not the faith of each individual lost person, and if God credits that person's faith as righteous faith, God transfers the individual into Christ.
     
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    If you are correct in the above assertion, then all humans are damned to hell, without exception.
    The reason is that God doesn't choose who to save based on the faith that person exhibits before salvation.

    How many times must I point out that you are teaching merited salvation apart from grace.

    How many times must I quote Bible passages that express God's salvation of dead in trespasses sinners, purely because He graciously chose them from before the foundation of the world?

    *Ephesians 2:1-10*
    And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

    *Colossians 2:13-15*
    And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

    *Ephesians 1:3-14*
    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

    Van, you mistake justification for salvation. They are not one in the same thing. Justification is the effect of God's gracious, unmerited, salvation. Justification is not the cause of our salvation as you keep insisting.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) AustinC posts non-germane scripture and says it supports his bogus view. Nonsense.
    2) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God chooses individuals for salvation through faith in the truth. AustinC's claim is unbiblical nonsense.
    3) Yes, every time you see saved by grace through faith, that faith existed before being utilized by God for salvation.
    4) Justification results from redemption for salvation.

    Bottome line Austinc and the sect views he bought into, claim 2 Peter 2:1 does not mean those heading for destruction were bought by Christ. But just read the verse folks, scripture means what it says.

    And after becoming the means of salvation for all humanity, Christ saves everyone God transfers into His spiritual body, and loses none, as they all will be raised on the last day. Bought then redeemed!
     
  20. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Active Member

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    I might change the op a little..

    The purchase of salvation or cost. was the cross. that was the price of redemption.

    Justification, however, is not just automatically applied just because the price was redeemed. We are justified THROUGH faith.

    Christ redeemed the world. But he will not force the world to be saved (justified)
     
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