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Brian McLaren Calls Hell and the Cross "False Advertising for God"

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Linda64, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    "[T]his is one of the huge problems with the traditional understanding of hell, because if the Cross is in line with Jesus' teaching, then I won't say the only and I certainly won't say ... or even the primary or a primary meaning of the Cross ... is that the Kingdom of God doesn't come like the kingdoms of this world by inflicting violence and coercing people. But that the kingdom of God comes thru suffering and willing voluntary sacrifice right? But in an ironic way the doctrine of hell basically says no, that's not really true. At the end God get's his way thru coercion and violence and intimidation and uh domination just like every other kingdom does. The Cross isn't the center then, the Cross is almost a distraction and false advertising for God."

    http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/brianmclaren.htm

    http://www.understandthetimes.org/mclarentrans.shtml

    This is the transcript of the interview Brian McClaren had with Leif Hansen.

    Since when is the Cross "false advertising" for God---and where in Scriptures does it say we are to "advertise" for God? I thought we are to be "witnesses" and preach the Gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15).
     
  2. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    Who is Brian McClaren?
     
  3. Ulsterman

    Ulsterman New Member

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    He is the chief proponent of the "emerging church" heresy.
     
  4. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    Oh, enough said. The Emerging Church has swung way too far out into the left field.
     
  5. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Brian McLaren is what NOT to do as one tries to do church in a postmodern culture.
     
  6. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Why do you make that claim?
     
  7. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    McLaren is on record as saying that he isn't too sure that homosexuality is a sin (because of the rules of BB, please, let us not debate the sin of homosexuality here).
     
  8. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    I am going to have to go look up what he said between the places I highlighted. I have seen Gail Riplinger do things like that it it totally changes what the guy said... I will read it and then comment.
     
  9. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    You brought it up. Why do you feel the need to insinuate that I would argue that it was not a sin? I suppose that if I had said that on this board that would be a reasonable point. Show me where I've ever said anything to that effect.
     
    #9 JustChristian, Mar 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2008
  10. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Baptistbeliever, I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough. Please, forgive, but I'm speaking of Brian McLaren.

    Mr. McLaren is on record on the issue as wavering not you.
     
  11. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Active Member

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    I agree with McLaren. The doctrine of the cross is continually mentioned throughout the new testament as our motivation for belief. The doctrine of hell is never mentioned in the new testament as our motivation for belief.
     
    #11 Gold Dragon, Mar 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2008
  12. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. Condemnation is repeatedly invoked as the result of rebellion against God and rejection of the gospel.

    For the Christian, of course, hell isn't a motivation, for he or she is not headed there.
     
  13. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Active Member

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    I agree that condemnation is a result of rebellion against God and rejection of the gospel and nothing in McLaren's quote above says that he disagrees.

    But hell avoidance has traditionally been preached as the motivation for faith in Christ and that is what I agree with McLaren is incorrect about the traditional doctrine of hell because that view is never mentioned in the NT.
     
    #13 Gold Dragon, Mar 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2008
  14. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    To listen to the interview of Brian McClaren about his view of hell and the cross:

    http://www.enteuxis.org/leifh/bleedingpurple21b.mp3

    I listened to this and Brian McClaren teaches and preaches "another Jesus" and "another gospel"...definitely NOT the Jesus of the Scriptures.

    Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


     
    #14 Linda64, Mar 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2008
  15. queenbee

    queenbee New Member

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    Wondered if you could be more specific TC? I've been researching other websites and came across similar comments suggesting that McLaren, Warren, even Hybels are promoting some questionable ideas/practices. Can you or anyone else elaborate as to what your concerns are and what I/we should be looking for and avoiding? Guess I'm still fuzzy or clueless about all this.
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    You cannot avoid the issue of hell without distorting the gospel. Hell is the censequence of sin. Hell as taught in scripture gives us a picture of the depravity of man or our sinnful state, and the reason Christ went to the cross. And you cannot get to salvation without looking to the cross which represents our sin, hell, our current state, and grace. Grace has no real value without hell.
     
  17. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Active Member

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    I agree that hell is part of the gospel. But what I and McLaren are saying is that hell avoidance Christians have distorted hell to be the focus of the gospel and taken away from the cross as the true focus of the gospel.
     
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    I think you and GD are both right. You cannot have the cross without God's wrath, and appease God's wrath without the cross.
     
  19. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Active Member

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    Folks here are reading this quote and incorrectly jumping to the conclusion that McLaren doens't believe in hell. I think there is many valid criticisms one can make of Brian McLaren's beliefs but that isn't one of them and it is not demonstrated by the quote in the OP which I think many Christians agree with if they took the time to actually think about what he is trying to say instead of simply reacting.

    A more valid criticism of McLaren regarding hell is that he has questioned the literalness of hell as a place. He does not come out and say that hell is a figurative place but claims uncertainty and openness to that possibility.

    While I believe that hell is a literal physical place, I am also willing to consider biblical arguments that it is not. I have yet to see good ones.
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    That is not what McLaren holds to. He in fact denies a hell where people suffer. He in fact denies the "traditional" hell.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SOUfsX2fbk
     
    #20 Revmitchell, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008
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