By faith alone or by faith and acting?

Luke,

You should be ashamed of yourself for this thread. You know full well that I believe that true saving faith alone saves. (by Grace through faith)

The question is whether the faith is alive or dead, as James addresses and others have brought up. Jesus says, "You will know them by their fruits." In other words, you will know those who have true saving faith by their actions/works. True saving faith WILL result in works, as I said in that last thread, but which you conveniently left out of your list of quotes.

People can believe something but choose not to follow. I know people who've been told by their doctor that if they keep smoking or eating fatty foods that they will die very soon, yet they choose to keep smoking and eating poorly. Is that because they really don't believe the doctor? Not necessarily. Some say they do believe him but they just don't want to sacrifice the pleasure. They don't want to give up their vice, just like the Rich Young Ruler didn't want to give up his wealth.

You make the assumption that if someone beleives the truth that they have to keep the truth and live by it, but the scripture clearly shows that they may choose to 'trade the truth in for a lie' and so grow defiled in their thinking and given over to their lusts. The scripture clearly teaches that people 'will perish because they refuse to love the truth and so be saved.' That is not my opinion Luke. It is what the Bible actually teaches.

Now, why don't you apologize to me and the board for suggesting that I believe in salvation by works and deal with my actual words.

 

Brother, do you know what irresistible grace means and actually teaches?

- Peace

 

If it's faith alone it sure does. Not to mention that faith is a verb and being so it's self is an action. I heard so many Calvinist say that faith is a work and then now all of a sudden it isn't, go figure. I don't know of any one here who claims to work for there Salvation though the accusation of it is common practice. If you persevere or work to maintain your Salvation as in your doctrines then aren't you working for Salvation?

Besides How can one have faith to be saved by when most Calvinist believe they can't hear or understand until they are saved first. It just seems to me there are so many wholes in the doctrines of grace I'm supprized anyone believes any of it. Faith comes by hearing it isn't handed to us on a silver platter. Which seems to be another whole in it.

Regeneration still means to be saved. There fore when you claim to be regenerated first you are saying by regeneration alone because according to Calvinism, you can't have any faith until you are regenerated.

Maybe you could tell me why Calvinist never lable anything as they define it. Instead of claiming faith alone which relates it is completely alone. Why not just state it as it is. If grace is included then neither is alone these are two completely different things. If it includeds conviction and repentence that makes four and submission with out which you will not have any of it. Then to top it off It's all of God That makes 6 requirements for Salvation and faith is not alone.

It boggles the mind that Calvinist try to tell anyone else there doctrine is wrong. When nothing in there doctrine is supported by scripture. They refuse to define what they believe because it seems to me that way they can change it in an argument as in there claim that faith is a work.
MB

 

:applause::applause::applause: <---- I'm standing up too

 

Yes i do preacher, what is your point?

You guys believe that God forces faith and salvation on His elect without giving them a choice to deny it. Likewise you believe that if a person is not one of God's elect that they cannot seek after nor recieve the faith needed for salvation.

This is the main part of DoG that i oppose and believe to be unbiblical.

I also believe that Arminian theology is wrong because they teach that salvation is conditional.

This is why i am just a "regular Christian"

John

 

Bro, from what you say, you don't know what it teaches. The term "Irresistible Grace" is a bit misleading from what it actually affirms.

But I do agree with you that Arminian theology is errant, and was rightfully condemned.

Here is a thread I started on the subject. Note the vehement attacks against it, from those who had no clue as to what it teaches. Especially notice the very last comment.

Here is the link:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=73419

- Peace

 

This I can agree with Irresistible grace is misleading. Though I am surprized a Calvinist would confess this as truth.

Its in error because it came out of Calvinism. and Calvinism came out of Catholicism.
MB

 

I don't see any similarities between Calvinism and Catholicism.

 

The Calvinsit doctrine of Irresistible Grace is nothing but circular reasoning. If a person believes it was irresistible grace, if the person refuses to believe it was common or resistible grace. The name of the grace is determined by a person's reaction to it. How any intelligent person could be fooled by such an argument is beyond me, but obviously they can.

The scriptures do not show some men receive some special "effectual" or "irresistible" grace while others receive some powerless "common" grace. The grace that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

Amy, remember MB also claims Mormons, JW's, and those in other cults are saved if they believe in Jesus. Major problem; they have a different Jesus than that of the Scriptures.

Also, Calvinism is not synonymous with Catholicism. He doesn't know what he's talking about and simply parrots others of the same cloth.

 

This is very well stated Winman. I would like to know how a Calvinist reconciles this.

 

[Skandelon]This is very well stated Winman. I would like to know how a Calvinist reconciles this.[/QUOTE]

By recognizing the entire context of Titus 2:11-14, which defines the parameters of the "all".

 

I submit to you that a better answer, for both cals and non-cals to discuss, is the definition of the parameters of "all" defined in Romans 3:22-23. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God; but the righteousness of God, which is by faith of Jesus Christ, is unto all and upon all them that believe.

 

As I said, I see nowhere that anyone has said differently; instead I see where these non-cals affirm that acts are exactly as you say: a result of salvation.

Perhaps I'm missing how you're interpreting their statements to mean that if there are no acts, then there is no faith, and thus, no salvation; and this somehow means that they're saying you must have acts to be saved.

 

........................................... I goofed.........wrong post that Brother Don posted.......heheheheheh