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C.H. Spurgeon, A defense of Calvinism.

Dale-c

Active Member
Ok, for everyone that says that Calvinism kills evangelism check out this article from a pastor of many thousands:

The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again.

It is a great thing to begin the Christian life by believing good solid doctrine. Some people have received twenty different "gospels" in as many years; how many more they will accept before they get to their journey's end, it would be difficult to predict. I thank God that He early taught me the gospel, and I have been so perfectly satisfied with it, that I do not want to know any other. Constant change of creed is sure loss. If a tree has to be taken up two or three times a year, you will not need to build a very large loft in which to store the apples. When people are always shifting their doctrinal principles, they are not likely to bring forth much fruit to the glory of God. It is good for young believers to begin with a firm hold upon those great fundamental doctrines which the Lord has taught in His Word. Why, if I believed what some preach about the temporary, trumpery salvation which only lasts for a time, I would scarcely be at all grateful for it; but when I know that those whom God saves He saves with an everlasting salvation, when I know that He gives to them an everlasting righteousness, when I know that He settles them on an everlasting foundation of everlasting love, and that He will bring them to His everlasting kingdom, oh, then I do wonder, and I am astonished that such a blessing as this should ever have been given to me!

"Pause, my soul! adore, and wonder! Ask, 'Oh, why such love to me?' Grace hath put me in the number Of the Saviour's family: Hallelujah! Thanks, eternal thanks, to Thee!"

I suppose there are some persons whose minds naturally incline towards the doctrine of free-will. I can only say that mine inclines as naturally towards the doctrines of sovereign grace. Sometimes, when I see some of the worst characters in the street, I feel as if my heart must burst forth in tears of gratitude that God has never let me act as they have done! I have thought, if God had left me alone, and had not touched me by His grace, what a great sinner I should have been! I should have run to the utmost lengths of sin, dived into the very depths of evil, nor should I have stopped at any vice or folly, if God had not restrained me. I feel that I should have been a very king of sinners, if God had let me alone. I cannot understand the reason why I am saved, except upon the ground that God would have it so. I cannot, if I look ever so earnestly, discover any kind of reason in myself why I should be a partaker of Divine grace. If I am not at this moment without Christ, it is only because Christ Jesus would have His will with me, and that will was that I should be with Him where He is, and should share His glory. I can put the crown nowhere but upon the head of Him whose mighty grace has saved me from going down into the pit. Looking back on my past life, I can see that the dawning of it all was of God; of God effectively. I took no torch with which to light the sun, but the sun enlightened me. I did not commence my spiritual life-no, I rather kicked, and struggled against the things of the Spirit: when He drew me, for a time I did not run after Him: there was a natural hatred in my soul of everything holy and good. Wooings were lost upon me-warnings were cast to the wind-thunders were despised; and as for the whispers of His love, they were rejected as being less than nothing and vanity. But, sure I am, I can say now, speaking on behalf of myself, "He only is my salvation." It was He who turned my heart, and brought me down on my knees before Him. I can in very deed, say with Doddridge and Toplady-

"Grace taught my soul to pray, And made my eyes o'erflow;"
and coming to this moment, I can add-
"'Tis grace has kept me to this day, And will not let me go."

Well can I remember the manner in which I learned the doctrines of grace in a single instant. Born, as all of us are by nature, an Arminian, I still believed the old things I had heard continually from the pulpit, and did not see the grace of God. When I was coming to Christ, I thought I was doing it all myself, and though I sought the Lord earnestly, I had no idea the Lord was seeking me. I do not think the young convert is at first aware of this. I can recall the very day and hour when first I received those truths in my own soul-when they were, as John Bunyan says, burnt into my heart as with a hot iron, and I can recollect how I felt that I had grown on a sudden from a babe into a man-that I had made progress in Scriptural knowledge, through having found, once for all, the clue to the truth of God. One week-night, when I was sitting in the house of God, I was not thinking much about the preacher's sermon, for I did not believe it. The thought struck me, How did you come to be a Christian? I sought the Lord. But how did you come to seek the Lord? The truth flashed across my mind in a moment-I should not have sought Him unless there had been some previous influence in my mind to make me seek Him. I prayed, thought I, but then I asked myself, How came I to pray? I was induced to pray by reading the Scriptures. How came I to read the Scriptures? I did read them, but what led me to do so? Then, in a moment, I saw that God was at the bottom of it all, and that He was the Author of my faith, and so the whole doctrine of grace opened up to me, and from that doctrine I have not departed to this day, and I desire to make this my constant confession, "I ascribe my change wholly to God."

Here is the link to the rest of the article
 

TCGreek

New Member
I've read this article before. I found it to be good. Ol' Spurgeon should continue to be a model for pastors today.:thumbs:
 

Bill Brown

New Member
The interesting thing about Spurgeon is that he is revered in the Ariminian camp. In my early Christian years I attended a small Baptist church in Kearny, NJ. The pastor (a godly man and still a dear friend) would often quote Spurgeon and speak well of him. When I attended the Word of Life Bible Institute Spurgeon was quoted, cited and credited with being a proponent of free will. Spurgeon, an advocate of free will? It has become painfully obvious that most folks in the Arminian camp have no idea of Spurgeon's theology. All I'm asking for is a little honesty. If an Arminian did not know who wrote these words, what would be his opinion?

According to the free will scheme, the Lord intends good, but he must wait like a lackey on his own creature to know what his intention is; God willeth good and would do it but he cannot because he has an unwilling man who will not have God's good thing carried into effect. What do ye, sirs, but drag the Eternal from his throne and lift up into it that fallen creature, man; for man, according to that theory, nods and his nod is destiny. You must have a destiny somewhere; it must either be as God wills or as man wills. If it be as God wills, then Jehovah sits as sovereign upon his throne of glory, and all hosts obey him, and the world is safe; if not God, then you put man there to say, `I will,' or `I will not; if I will it, I will enter heaven; if I will it, I will despise the grace of God; if I will it, I will conquer the Holy Spirit, for I am stronger than God and stronger than omnipotence; if I will it, I will make the blood of Christ of no effect, for I am mightier than the blood, mightier that the blood of the Son of God himself; though God make his purpose, yet will I laugh at his purpose; it shall be my purpose that shall make his purpose stand or fall.' Why, sirs, if this be not atheism, it is idolatry; it is putting man where God should be; and I shrink with solemn awe and horror from that doctrine which makes the grandest of God's works--the salvation of man--to be dependent upon the will of his creature whether it shall be accomplished or not. Glory I can and must in my text in its fullest sense. `It is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy' (Romans 9:16).

--Taken from Evangelical Times, April 1996 p. 11

I am not trying to attack my Arminian friends. Far from it. I simply wish to shed some perspective on their love affair with Charles Spurgeon. He is not the friend of their theology.
 

Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Spurgeon Was Not A Mild Calvinist

A.W. Pink wrote a book on Election . In the 5th chapter he cited Spurgeon . He followed the quote with these remarks .

How many who now speak of him eulogistically , and refer to him as 'beloved Spurgeon' would gnash their teeth and execrate him were they to hear his faithful and plain-spoken preaching ?
 

skypair

Active Member
Rippon said:
A.W. Pink wrote a book on Election . In the 5th chapter he cited Spurgeon . He followed the quote with these remarks .

How many who now speak of him eulogistically , and refer to him as 'beloved Spurgeon' would gnash their teeth and execrate him were they to hear his faithful and plain-spoken preaching ?
It was a simple case of Spurgeon taking the "politically correct" label is what I have read. And that label issue was obviously, to me, over the issue of Armenians saying one could lose one's salvation -- which Spurgeon didn't believe.

skypair
 

Dale-c

Active Member
It was a simple case of Spurgeon taking the "politically correct" label is what I have read.
Well, you have "simply" read wrong.
And that label issue was obviously, to me, over the issue of Armenians saying one could lose one's salvation -- which Spurgeon didn't believe.
So are you really denying that Spurgeon was a calvinist? Did you even read the article that I posted?
 

Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SP , as with a number of your observations -- you are very wrong once more .

And please , don't pick on the poor "Armenians" . Please spell with me -- A-R-M-I-N-I-A-N-S .

Spurgeon never did anything out of political correctness . You really don't know what he was made of .

You heard this , and you heard that .You were misinformed abouyt A.W.Pink as well . Please familiarize yourself with a subject before jumping into the fray .
 

psalms109:31

Active Member
C. H. Sspurgeon

About 14 years ago I use to find all kinds of teaching from Spurgeon, how He supported calvin and the openess of the Gospel.

Today calvinist have clouded the internet of what they want you to hear from Spurgeon that I can't even find the stuff I use to find.

Remember Spurgeon preached before the 5-points was born from man.
Spurgeon support much of what calvin taught and also the openness of the Gospel for all men, the world.

When men put thier veil on they can only see what they want to see.

There is two sides of the coin and they desire to show you the side they want you to see.

I love Spurgeon when He preached the Gospel, He believed in the power of the words of Jesus and the Gospel and knew at that point whosoever can come. Spurgeon really had faith of a mustard seed. Spurgeon use to say don't have excuses like I am not good enough to come or I don't know if I am the elect or not. He said you just come and JESUS WILL NO WISE CAST YOU OUT. There is nothing wrong in believing in what calvinist teach now but believe in the power of God and the Gospel that it can make the dead alive and whosoever can come just as the scripture says. God through Jesus has opened the door for all men, don't let men give you an excuse not to come, you just come and JESUS WILL NO WISE CAST YOU OUT. I put that in caps because in Spurgeons notes he said to shout it.

We cannot argue with the truth of the calvinist from scripture nor can we take away the truth that whosoever may come. If we disagree with one of these truth we are as bad as them.

They to must come to the realism of the scripture that whosever can come.

The only way we can reach a dying world is with the whole truth of God or we make God a liar and a murderer of men just as satan is. They make many excuses not to believe the word of God by saying that all doesn't mean all or the world doesn't mean world and make God a liar.

If God wants to love jacob and hate esua who are we to question God and His motive and if through the Gosel anyone can come who are we to question God. It is God who chooses who He will save, if He desires to save whosoever believes who are we to question God.
 
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Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mr.Ps. : A little history -- Synod of Dort ( 1618/19 ) . Charles Spurgeon ( 1834-1892 ) . The 5 Points were around long before C.H.S. came on the scene .

"Whosoever will" means those who -- not an indiscriminate call-out . The LORD gives faith to those of His choosing .
 

Allan

Active Member
Dale-c said:
Ok, for everyone that says that Calvinism kills evangelism check out this article from a pastor of many thousands:



Here is the link to the rest of the article
I agree that it is not specifically Calvinistic teaching which kill evangelism but the taking of scripture to far regarding those doctrines to which it holds.

If we look at the Non-Cals today, we could deduce that the Non-Cal position produces a killing effect on evangelism.

But neither are actaully correct. 'WE' are killers of evangelism. People say "it starts in the pulpit and descends into the pew'. That may be in some cases but not across the board nor IMO the larger part. It begins when we see just how far from holiness and righteous we can get and still be considered righteous and Holy.

When we leave our first love, we leave that which He loves as well to be undone by us.

One of the things I love about this sermon is what Spurgeon says here toward the end of his sermon:
...I do not think I differ from any of my Hyper-Calvinistic brethren in what I do believe, but I differ from them in what they do not believe. I do not hold any less than they do, but I hold a little more, and, I think, a little more of the truth revealed in the Scriptures. Not only are there a few cardinal doctrines, by which we can steer our ship North, South, East, or West, but as we study the Word, we shall begin to learn something about the North-west and North-east, and all else that lies between the four cardinal points. The system of truth revealed in the Scriptures is not simply one straight line, but two; and no man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once. For instance, I read in one Book of the Bible, "The Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Yet I am taught, in another part of the same inspired Word, that "it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." I see, in one place, God in providence presiding over all, and yet I see, and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions, in a great measure, to his own free-will. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act that there was no control of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to atheism; and if, on the other hand, I should declare that God so over-rules all things that man is not free enough to be responsible, I should be driven at once into Antinomianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and yet that man is responsible, are two facts that few can see clearly. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one part of the Bible that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find, in another Scripture, that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is only my folly that leads me to imagine that these two truths can ever contradict each other. I do not believe they can ever be welded into one upon any earthly anvil, but they certainly shall be one in eternity. They are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the human mind which pursues them farthest will never discover that they converge, but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.

A wise man indeed.
 

skypair

Active Member
Dale-c said:
So are you really denying that Spurgeon was a calvinist? Did you even read the article that I posted?
Yes. As well as others. He would be one of the first to invite people to receive Christ.

Now on another board, I am dialoguing with a Calvinist that makes a distinction between "efficacious calling" which is presentation of the gospel for all who will to believe and "regeneration" and "faith" that comes after receiving Christ.

I can buy that if that is what anyone has been trying to tell me these last years -- that none are regenerate before salvation -- that ALL hear the word whereupon some are "efficaciously called" to believe, repent and receive Christ. These "some" ARE foreknown and predestined before creation.

When they have been "efficaciously called," they receive regeneration changing their "hope"/belief into faith simultaneously.

My issue has always been that in your personal life there has to be a cause within you that establishes your conversion. And if Cavlinists like Spurgeon would invite the scriptural reponse to "efficacious calling" of the gospel, then people would be saved or "elected" or whatever you want to call the rebirth/adoption into God's family.

skypair
 

skypair

Active Member
Psalms109

It is God who chooses who He will save, if He desires to save whosoever believes who are we to question God.
Exactly! Good summation! :applause:

A good Calvinist hypothetical would be that God can save/elect a baby who can't believe not having yet the capacity for such belief. They've perverted the meaning of scripture to the point that infants need saving and so babies of the elect and those baptized in the Calvinist church are, of course, "elect"/saved without belief. Ugh!

skypair
 

Dale-c

Active Member
Yes. As well as others. He would be one of the first to invite people to receive Christ.
Yes, you read the article or yes you are denying that CHS was really a calvinist?

For what it is worth, I have read Spurgeon on the subject and I agree with him.
So how is it that people can agree with Spurgeon and not with others that believe exactly as he did?
 

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
Can you help me by explaining one or two things which puzzle me at the moment in your message?

psalms109:31 said:
About 14 years ago I use to find all kinds of teaching from Spurgeon, how He supported calvin and the openess of the Gospel.

Today calvinist have clouded the internet of what they want you to hear from Spurgeon that I can't even find the stuff I use to find.

You say Spurgeon supported Calvin, then you seem to complain that "Calvinists" are making it impossible for you to find the "stuff you used to find". What "stuff" do you mean?

psalms109:31 said:
Remember Spurgeon preached before the 5-points was born from man.

How do you work that out? Charles Haddon Spurgeon was not born until 1834, over two hundred years after the Five Points of Calvinism were written at the Synod of Dort (in reply to the earlier "Five Points of Arminianism")

psalms109:31 said:
Spurgeon support much of what calvin taught and also the openness of the Gospel for all men, the world.

Are you saying that Calvinists today don't believe that? There are people who don't believe in the open preaching of the gospel, but that is not Calvinism. Some people call it "hypercalvinism". I get the impression that many of the arguments against "Calvinism" on this board are in fact against "hypercalvinism".

psalms109:31 said:
When men put thier veil on they can only see what they want to see.

There is two sides of the coin and they desire to show you the side they want you to see.

I love Spurgeon when He preached the Gospel, He believed in the power of the words of Jesus and the Gospel and knew at that point whosoever can come. Spurgeon really had faith of a mustard seed. Spurgeon use to say don't have excuses like I am not good enough to come or I don't know if I am the elect or not. He said you just come and JESUS WILL NO WISE CAST YOU OUT. There is nothing wrong in believing in what calvinist teach now but believe in the power of God and the Gospel that it can make the dead alive and whosoever can come just as the scripture says. God through Jesus has opened the door for all men, don't let men give you an excuse not to come, you just come and JESUS WILL NO WISE CAST YOU OUT. I put that in caps because in Spurgeons notes he said to shout it.

Sorry, but have you not done precisely what you are arguing against, and given only one side of the coin - one half of John 6.37?

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out."​

psalms109:31 said:
We cannot argue with the truth of the calvinist from scripture nor can we take away the truth that whosoever may come. If we disagree with one of these truth we are as bad as them.

But Calvinists don't argue against the words of Christ that "whoseover will may come." However, they see, both in scripture, and in life, that there are plenty of "whosoever wont's". What makes makes the difference between a "whosoever will" person, and a "whosoever won't"? Jesus Himself makes it clear in John 6.63-65:

63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
64 "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

psalms109:31 said:
They to must come to the realism of the scripture that whosever can come.

Does the scripture say this? I couldn't find it. O yes, there are plenty of verses that tell us that whoever believes in Christ, and whoever wills (that is, has the desire) may come, but as I've already said, Jesus said that the Father must draw someone before that person can come to Christ.

psalms109:31 said:
The only way we can reach a dying world is with the whole truth of God or we make God a liar and a murderer of men just as satan is. They make many excuses not to believe the word of God by saying that all doesn't mean all or the world doesn't mean world and make God a liar.

If God wants to love jacob and hate esua who are we to question God and His motive and if through the Gosel anyone can come who are we to question God. It is God who chooses who He will save, if He desires to save whosoever believes who are we to question God.
 
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Dale-c

Active Member
I get the impression that many of the arguments against "Calvinism" on this board are in fact against "hypercalvinism".
Quite an observation. I have seen that myself and it makes it really hard to have a good discussion when you are constantly being told you believe that which you do not believe.
 

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Dale-c said:
Quite an observation. I have seen that myself and it makes it really hard to have a good discussion when you are constantly being told you believe that which you do not believe.
Unfortunately, from many of the arguments here, that is the only natural conclusion lead to...
 

psalms109:31

Active Member
Spurgeun

Maybe I'm just seeing the limitation of the five points to the five word one and not to all the canons of dort say

Like things like this i can't find anymore

Spurgeon really had faith of a mustard seed. Spurgeon use to say don't have excuses like I am not good enough to come or I don't know if I am the elect or not. He said you just come and JESUS WILL NO WISE CAST YOU OUT. There is nothing wrong in believing in what calvinist teach now but believe in the power of God and the Gospel that it can make the dead alive and whosoever can come just as the scripture says. God through Jesus has opened the door for all men, don't let men give you an excuse not to come, you just come and JESUS WILL NO WISE CAST YOU OUT. I put that in caps because in Spurgeons notes he said to shout it.

Or when he say's if God wants to save the world who are we to stand in God's way.

I hear mostly on this board one side of the coin and want to show them the other side. They know thier side very well.

Why I say God says that whosoever can come, because God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

The truth of the matter is if they have no one to preach and no one is sent they can't be saved, so how beautiful is the feet who bring the good news.

When the Gospel is preached whosoever can come or they can walk away just like the young rich ruler. Two paths are presented to them and through the power of the Gospel they can choose either one to believe and be saved or not and be condemned. Why because God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Since that is truth God has given us the ability to walk away or to come. Since some people come and others don't.

It is God who draws us and He draws us through the wiords of Jesus which was not His own but the Father who sent Him and and also Jesus words are Spirit and they are life

God has chosen to save only those who believe in His Son and thier faith is proved by what they do.

I know our inability, but also know the power of the Gospel. The cross has not lost it's power
 

Dale-c

Active Member
Most of what you post is good.
Yes it is true that is how Spurgeon preached as best I can tell.
I think what he was saying was that foreget the excuse of election to not come to Christ.
Or it would also apply, forget election when witnessing.
Christ never said only preach to those that will listen, we preach to EVERYONE.

ALso as you have said, only those who believe will actually come to Christ.

We are all together up to that point.
Here is the dividing facter that so many refuse to deal with:
Who makes the difference in that decision?
Does man decide on his own? Regardless of what God wants?
Or Does God irresistibly draw many to be saved?
Does He change their hearts from stone to flesh so that they become willing to receive Him?


Remeber that Jesus did not come into the world to condemn it. IT was already condemned.
He came to seek and to save that which was lost.
The ones that He does NOT save are deserving of what they get.
The ones that He does saves do NOT derserve what they get.

By the way, the command to repentance is to all, regardless of whether they are elect or not.
Anyone who does not preach to a certain person because they believe that person to not be one of the elect is going against scripture.
Anyone who says you can't know if you are truly saved is against the Bible as well.
 

psalms109:31

Active Member
It is God who makes the difference

It is God who makes the difference, it is He that sent us out , it is His word that He sent us out with and it was He who did the work for our salvation.

The wages of our sin is death not belief not faith, but death.

No m,atter what we do we cannot save ourselves all we can do is trust in Jesus and His word. Even though God through the Gospel say's whosoever believes shall be saved it is God who makes the difference.

Without Jesus no one can be saved in that it is God who made he difference.

We are saved by grace through faith not by works but by faith in the word that God gave us.

Those who put thier trust in the Lord will not be disappointed
 
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