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Featured Call on the name of the Lord is necessary

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Revmitchell, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
    Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

    Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

    It is not only our responsibility to believe in Jesus to be saved but we must call on the name of the Lord. We must pray and confess our repentance.
     
  2. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Basic soteriology 101
    Confession rises as a result of the changed heart, confession does not change the heart.
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    "Many of you are saved; I beseech you intercede for those who are not saved. Oh that the unconverted among you may be moved to pray. Before you leave this place breathe an earnest prayer to God saying God be merciful to me a sinner. Lord I need to be saved. Save me. I call on they name. Join with me in prayer this moment, I entreat you. Join with me while I put words in your mouths, and speak them on your behalf; Lord I am guilty. I deserve they wrath. Lord I cannot save myself. Lord I would have a new heart and a right spirit but what can I do? Lord I can do nothing, come and work in me to will and to do of thy good pleasure. Thou alone hast power, I know, to save a wretch like me. To whom or wither should I go, if I should run from thee? But I now do from my very soul call upon thy name. Trembling yet believing, I cast myself wholly on thee oh Lord. I trust the blood and the righteousness of they dear Son, Lord save me tonight for Jesus sake."

    C. H Spurgeon
     
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  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    thanks for the strawman
     
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  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Just restating Romans 10:10

    One can confess and repent and never will the heart be changed.

    One with a changed heart cannot help but repent and confess.
     
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  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Another passage of scripture the Rev does not seem to understand.

    Look at the context (now there's a novel idea)!

    Rom 10:1 Brothers, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God is for Israel, that they may be saved.

    Rom 10:9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    The Jews already believed in God the Father and even in God the Holy Spirit, but they did not believe Jesus was Yahwah.

    The proof of the salvation of the Jews was that they confessed that Jesus was Yahwah.

    This is Sunday School level stuff. I really can't understand how you can not understand it.
     
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  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Wow! Hard to believe that calvinists believe only the Jews obtain faith by hearing the gospel. This is what happens when you put this calvinistic spin on scripture. You paint yourself into a corner.
     
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    This is what happens when you lie about what other's post. :(
     
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  9. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    The Greek for Romans 10:13 is, "Πᾶς γὰρ ὃς ἂν ἐπικαλέσηται τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου, σωθήσεται", which is much stronger:

    "EVERYONE WHOSOEVER shall call upon the Name of the Lord, shall be saved"

    Acts 2:21 also reads, "καὶ ἔσται, πᾶς ὃς ἐὰν ἐπικαλέσηται τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου, σωθήσεται"

    "And it shall be, EVERYONE WHOSOEVER shall call upon the Name of the Lord, shall be saved"

    Revelation 22:17 has the Holy Spirit and the Lord Jesus Christ say:

    "καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ ἡ νύμφη λέγουσιν, ἔρχου· καὶ ὁ ἀκούων εἰπάτω, ἔρχου. καὶ ὁ διψῶν ἐρχέσθω, ὁ θέλων λαβέτω ὕδωρ ζωῆς δωρεάν"

    "And the Spirit and the Bride say, come, and he that hears, let him say come, and he that THIRSTS let him come. and he that WILLS, let them take the water of life FREELY"!

    Here we have the Third and Second Persons of the Holy Trinity, invite ALL of the human race to TAKE FREELY of ETERNAL LIFE. Note that the FREE WILL of ALL is appealed to, otherwise this verse is nonsense!
     
  10. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Now THAT I agree with.
     
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  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    You present by adding the word “free” into the texts.

    There is nothing “free” in the ungodly, unsaved, heathen.

    This is why the Lord must make alive, must create a new heart, must make the believers a new creation.

    This is also why Paul mentions the very personal struggle in which all believers must contend. The old nature is not remade, or reinvigorated, but must die, daily be put aside.

    There seems to be a desire that you lift humankind into some endowment of being able by their own effort and will to attain salvation. That just does not remain consistent with all Scripture.
     
  12. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Now THAT I do not agree with. On the contrary: "repentance" IS the changed heart. The moment one obeys the conviction of the Holy Ghost by repenting (turning from sin and self to Jesus), that is when the heart changes. BECAUSE repentance and faith happen in the heart.
     
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  13. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    can you show where in the entire Bible do we read, that the Lord first "regenerates" the sinners heart, thus enabling them to "call on Him"? You forget that Jesus Himself says in John 16, that the Holy Spirit "convicts the world of sin...because they do not believe in Him". The same Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ in the closing chapter of Revelation INVITES ALL to use their WILL, which must be free, or the invitation is pointless, to take of the water of life FREELY. God has made man with the capacity to either "accept" or "reject" the Gospel of salvation, which is been distorted by some "Reformers"!
     
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  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    There is something sacrosanct about the will of man and his choice(s) that no matter what we believe about it, God respects it. So should we.

    Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

    HankD
     
  15. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Before I attend to your question I will ask one.

    If I did show you by Scripture what you ask, would such oblige you to change your view toward the Doctrines of Grace?

    Not asking for full endorsement, but calm and deliberate consideration.
     
  16. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    If I am ever shown from the Word of God that I am wrong on ANYTHING that I hold to, even all my Christian life (over 35 years), then I will do so, as never claim to know all of the Truth, and always need to learn from the Holy Spirit!
     
  17. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Ok, then we must focus upon the Scripture and discover what alignment needs we both may have.
     
  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    We begin with this from Ephesians 2. Normally, I use the NASB or the KJV, but there are times that (imo) the NIV is valuable in quickly reading for an over view, and then turning to the others for more in-depth work.

    1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesha and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
    Look at the sequence in bold.

    We were dead.
    We were made alive with Christ while still dead
    Then we were sealed in Christ (saved).

    Your thoughts?
     
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  19. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

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    See, this is one of the great dangers of the system known as "Calvinism", or "Reformed" theology. They produce passages from Scripture and try to get a complete view of what the overall teaching of the Bible is. You quote from Ephesians, as if this IS the only passage in the Bible that we should look at on "Regeneration". Wrong! You have omitted the crucial passages that clearly teach that the sinner must REPENT first, before they can be saved, which is the SAME as "Regeneration", as is taught in Titus 3:5, where the word in the Greek, "παλινγενεσία", literally means, "born again", or the "re-birth". It CANNOT come before REPENTANCE!
     
  20. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I showed you one passage in context which deals directly with the matter, and you claim the teaching in that passage is needing some adjustment? Do you disagree with Ephesians, or my three sentence outline? I didn’t “produce” the passage. I merely posted it and highlighted the sequence Paul stated.

    You aren’t keeping the agreement if so early you discredit the writer of Ephesians as not presenting a truthful and reliable statement. A statement that undoubtedly teaches life is given before one is “in Christ” (using the term from Ephesians).

    Do you have a scripture that states as clearly life is given after on is “in Christ?” You said Ephesians was not the only, so quote in your post such a passage.
     
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