Called. But chosen?

Amen.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

[ November 09, 2002, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

No. God is not a man that He should repent and His character is immutable.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

Are you assuming that because they were struck down for what they did that it means they are destined for hell?

 

I think they are. It looks like a similar case as what happened to Ananias and Sapphira.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

I don't think we can assume that. Just because God decides to take someone home early (whether to make a point, or for whatever reason known only to God), doesn't necessarily mean they're destined for hell. The following passage says that some Corinthians "fell asleep" because they dishonored God with their behavior with respect to the Lord's supper, and they were judged for it. The expression "fallen asleep" isn't likely to be used for anyone but someone who is saved, so I suspect that God simply took them home to stop them from continuing to show disrespect on such an important matter.

 

I agree. The best answer is "I don't know." But if I must answer saved or not saved, I would answer not saved. But that is pure opinion.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

Doesn't it say somewhere that the sins of Eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifices or offerings?

I'm not 100% certain what this means, but I have a hunch it may mean that those two guys were not forgiven.

 

Still,

The atonement of the O.T. is not the same as the reconciliation we have in Christ.

I probably should study the O.T. sacrifices before I answer. If you think I am too far off on this tell me, no hard feelings.

The Israelite nation was made privy to the sacrifices acceptable unto God.

They also knew these sacrifices pointed to the Messiah, these did not fulfill any reconciliation between man and God, they just permitted God to pass over the sins.

In bringing sacrifice, ourselves, if under the O.T. system, we could bring only a sin offering, why, when the system provides for peace offerings etc? The reason is we are of the Gentile peoples, not the people of God, we must always submit sacrifice in the way to atone for our sins, Israel may bring further peace offerings etc.

The two in question, if we are to answer whether they are saved or not we must know their view of the purposes of the sacrifices. Did they believe these were looking toward the promised seed, or not?

We are not made aware of this.

We must also remember the O.T. judgement was quicker than what we feel it now under the dispensation of Grace. For this reason these two were immediately consumed, for their error.

I would not immediately say they were never saved. But that they attempted to bring into the worship of God the unacceptable fire of man.

This is a hard question. It equates to asking whether or not Saul (King) was ever saved. He definitely was selected to be Israel's first King, yet he put himself into the place of the priest and this position was taken from him.

I take these to mean the ability to serve God in ministry, as being a leader of the people. Not as a question of the validity of their salvation.

The truth remains that having tasted the good things of God, can any fall away? This depends upon your view of what 'tasted' means, does it mean a taste, but not digestion, a taking into the body for nourishment, life, etc. or is tasting the goodness of God enough to cause in the individual that inworking performed of God which will lead to the outworking of the fruits of Salvation.

This is a good question Helen. And one which I have contemplated on alot, concerning the eternal condition of Adab and Abihu as well as king Saul.

I believe the judgement they received and justly so, is not an indication of a lost position, but rather that of one of not being approved in their methods.

All of you may agree, or all may disagree, I don't know, but I believe when we, though a child of God, would hinder His purpose in our lives, then we are inviting the same judgement upon ourselves.

(Note that the choices these men made are after they have known the truth of God, not before. As in the case of Nadab and Abihu, these two certainly had the relationship with God as described in scripture.)

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

It just occurred to me - what if these people (including even Ananias and Saphira) were not saved? They commited an offense to God, and God struck them down. Was the offense the unforgivable sin? If not, then why did God kill them and take away any chance that they might have chosen salvation of their own free will sometime later in their lives?

One could argue that God, in his foreknowledge, knew they would never repent. But that paints the free-will advocate back into the corner that Rev G. has mentioned several times -- if God foreknows who will be saved and who won't, then why does a loving free-will respecting God even allow those who are not saved to be born?

IMO, all this points to is how silly it is to point to something like this and say it is evidence for Calvinism or Arminianism.

[ November 09, 2002, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: npetreley ]

 

I'm not one to point the finger and say this one is one of Gods own and this one is not. Is that our job and duty in this world?... I think not it is to serve and love God completely and love our fellow man as ourself... There is one song that I lead in our church and maybe you sing it in yours.

We'll Understand It Better By and By!

We are tossed and driv’n on the restless sea of time;
Somber skies and howling tempests oft succeed a bright sunshine;
In that land of perfect day, when the mists have rolled away,
We will understand it better by and by.

Refrain

By and by, when the morning comes,
When the saints of God are gathered home,
We’ll tell the story how we’ve overcome,
For we’ll understand it better by and by.

We are often destitute of the things that life demands,
Want of food and want of shelter, thirsty hills and barren lands;
We are trusting in the Lord, and according to God’s Word,
We will understand it better by and by.

Refrain

Trials dark on every hand, and we cannot understand
All the ways that God could lead us to that blessèd promised land;
But He guides us with His eye, and we’ll follow till we die,
For we’ll understand it better by and by.

Refrain

Temptations, hidden snares often take us unawares,
And our hearts are made to bleed for a thoughtless word or deed;
And we wonder why the test when we try to do our best,
But we’ll understand it better by and by.

Refrain... God will save ALL his blood bought children and brethren we'll understand it better by and by!... Brother Glen

 

They brought sin into the Holy of Holies! Sin and holiness cannot coexist in one place. They may have been of the family of Aaron, but they were not submitted to or obedient to God, and were thus rejected by God for their irreverent, unholy behavior. They condemned themselves for No drunkard can enter heaven!

 

The Corinthians were getting drunk and generally behaving badly during the Lord's supper, which is why Paul said some of them are sick and others have fallen asleep. But Paul never said they weren't saved.

Bottom line: I see no reason to conclude one or the other. We'll find out someday.

 

The Corinthians were unlearned, new Christians out of gentile background. The Priests were life-long priests who were trained by the Chief Priest in accordance with Mosaic law, called by God to the office. Therein lies the difference!

The Bottom line? Think!

 

Their bodies were dead, their spirit departed from the flesh before they were carried out. So carrying them outside in their temple garments was purely symbolic. They were excluded from the priesthood!

 

First I wish to say I hope everyone has had a Blessed Lord's Day. And I pray the richest Blessings of God upon all the brothers and sisters in Christ here on the Baptist board and around the world. Amen.

{Sorry, just came over me to say that and I thought I had better do it, for the glory of God}.

These were also 'new' to the priesthood, though instructed in the Mosaic Law, it was new to them.

I do not believe it will make a difference how we view the eternal condition of these two, or any other in scripture for that matter, however it is, it is finished now.

Next, I maintain the salvation of these two and any others in the O.T. is equal to that of mine or any other since calvary. The only difference they looked forward to that time, if saved, they saw it, whereas we look back to that time, and if saved we have seen it.

If this were the case, the sin they committed is not to the losing of that which God promised to be eternal life.

Those things they were taught pertained to the earthly tabernacle, the sacrifices, all were shadows of that to come, the meaning of these required the same enlightenment from the Holy Spirit as the meaning of the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ requires today.

Not to start an arguement, but Christ suffered outside the gate as well. Also, a priest especially in course of service was prohibited from touching any dead body, whether close family or not.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

(I have an overwhelming feeling of blessing and peace, I was given a message on the blood of Christ and salvation this afternoon in my radio program and am thankful. Pray for my humbleness before God.)

 

If you mean that the priesthood was new, you are probably right, but they were made priests in Exodus chapter 28, of 40, and their sin that ended their lives occured in Leviticus 10, 22 chapter later.

They were not new to the priesthood, they were among the first to be made priests!

I don't think that Exodus and Leviticus were written at the same time, but rather that one followed the other by some unspecified period of time during the 40 years the Children wandered in the Wilderness with Moses as their leader. They were of the generation that would not see the promised land. And it would seem that Aaron had these sons before the Children left Egypt. That is, they were not children.

They had enough knowledge to know that disobedience to God in worship was punishable by death. Even so, they disobeyed. (just as Adam and Eve disobeyed)

[ November 10, 2002, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Yelsew ]