Featured Calvinism and John 3:16

For God so loved the world - Hence not only people who were eternally pre-selected for salvation.

that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him - Hence salvation is available to anyone who believes, implying anyone can believe.

should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I know, it's simple, so it must be stupid.

 

Agree. Jn 3:16 is a statement of fact, not an invitation.

 

The following Calvinist says it's an invitation.
Look and Live! Why I Interpret John 3:16 as an Invitation - Grace Bible Theological Seminary

 

Yes, the “wind (Spirit) blows where He wills… so is everyone born of the Spirit.” is clearly a reference to spiritual birth. My question concerns the “will” of God Holy Spirit in choosing where and in whom to move..

This qualifies (limits) the “whosoever” of John 3:16 to those on whom God Holy Spirit chooses to move upon.

Additionally, you didn’t explain your belief that the “love” mentioned in 3:16 is salvation love toward all humanity without exception and 1 Corinthians 13 that “love never fails”. Doesn’t your belief logically lead to universal salvation?

If not, please explain how the love of God in salvation toward all humanity without exception failed to accomplish universal salvation.

peace to you

 

Who believes, George?

 

Here I do regarding 3:16. But I do not think simple means stupid.

 

They would hold that God so loved the world meant that he sent Jesus to be a potential savior for all lost sinners

 

The ones who believe, Austin.

 

I have no idea what you are saying here.

Who believes?
Does everyone believe?
If not, then who does and why do they believe?
Understand that John 3:16-18 never answers this question directly. It indirectly tells you, both with the dialogue Jesus has with Nicodemus as well as with many other passages in scripture.

Will you allow the rest of scripture to answer this question for you or is your Bible only 2 verses long?

John 3:1-21

Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesusby night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world,that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

 

Which are who?

Do people just conjure up their own belief based upon their own rationalism?

The text surrounding verses 16-18 tells you, if you dare to venture outside your bubble.

 

Why wouldn't we give an invitation? Are we omniscient and all knowing? Do we have a spiritual black light that detects the elect? My goodness, what a silly thing to imagine the preaching and invitation isn't given to all people. Of course we preach to all. What we don't do is come up with clever schemes to "win souls" through emotional manipulation. God will either bring them to salvation or he won't. That's God's call, not anyone else's.

 

Charles Taze Russell knew Greek. Let that sink in so as to humble you in your imagined Greek scholarship.

 

John 3:16 as an invitation. Our brother @kyredneck said it was not an invitation.

 

I understand. redneck has some views I don't agree with. Mostly it's his RCC view on justification by faith plus works that I disagree with him on.
However, I think you misunderstand him on John 3:16-18. The passage is not an invitation passage. The passage is a statement Jesus is giving to Nicodemus so in that light, it is not an invitation.

 

Note how the Calvinist must recast faith in unscriptural terms to nullify the possibility of lost men believing.

 

What we notice is how you avoid the issue. Can you leave the bubble of John 3:16-18 and answer the question of who believes?

"Which are who?

Do people just conjure up their own belief based upon their own rationalism?

The text surrounding verses 16-18 tells you, if you dare to venture outside your bubble."

 

In context, the ones who believe are the ones “born of the Spirit” according to the will of God Holy Spirit.

peace to you

 

That is what I see. Just as we did not conceive ourselves to physical life, so we did not conceive ourselves to spiritual life.
Indeed, in Ephesians 2, Paul tells us that we were quickened by God...even while we were still dead.

 

Certainly that is reason Jesus uses the analogy of being born. God always speaks to us in ways we can understand… a divine condescension.

peace to you

 

Not really. You're describing "love" (here αγαπαω) as a noun, not a verb. The focus is on what God as the subject does, not what the type of love is. What you're missing here is the word οὕτως, which means "thusly" or "like so." So, John is defining what the love of God is in this case: Sending his Son. Is that slavific? Sure! But, it's not the meaning of "love" here.

There are plenty of cases where "the world" does not and cannot mean "the entire human race." In fact, in John 3:17 where it says "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him" the phrase "the entire human race" would not work. We could not say "For God did not send his Son into [the entire human race]. You might make the argument that "the entire human race" would work in some places--which it does--but it doesn't work in every one. So, your chose for it in 3:16 is entirely subjective. And, what is more, "the entire human race" cannot mean everyone without exception, otherwise you'd have to be a universalist at some point.

This is wrong. πᾶς is not where the KJV gets "whosoever." And, I might add, the translation "whosoever" is wrong. The relevant portion of the passage : πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν. Whether this portion is translate as "whosoever believes" (the wrong way) or "all the ones believing" (the right way) hinges on the definite article before pisteuown. Here's where we go into the deep end of the pool:

The masculine singular definite article in Greek is ὁ. (Notice the "rough" breathing mark...it looks like an apostrophe over the letter). The neuter singular relative pronoun in Greek is ὅ. (Notice the accent mark next to the rough breathing mark).

The neuter relative pronoun might be translated "whosoever;" the definite article cannot be. If, indeed, John wanted to convey the idea of "whosoever," he would have likely done it with a relative pronoun. But, here's the thing: The participle "the one believing" is a masculine singular participle. The relative pronoun that couples with a masculine singular noun is ὅς, not ὅ. ὅ is the relative pronoun that would be used for a neuter singular noun.

So, it is not possible to take ὁ as a relative pronoun because to do so would break the Greek grammatical rules related to gender. Therefore, this participle cannot be translated "whosoever believes." The proper translation is "the believing one" or "the one who believes."

No statement of ability is implied by the text, you've read that into it here.

I--for one--do not think κοσμος refers to the elect only.

This is very wrong. First, the subjunctive does not equal conditional. There are conditional sentences in Greek--several classes, in fact. But, they are formulaic and that formula is not present here.

The verb is subjunctive, but it is in a purpose clause (denoted by the word ἵνα). Since it is a purpose clause the subjunctive actually functions more like an indicative. Here, the subjunctive is not stating possibility of an action, but it is stating the intended result of the primary action (God sending His son into the world--not to condemn it--in this case). So, all this is telling us is that salvation (as opposed to condemnation) comes because God sent His son into the world.

Nothing here is said of why "choices" may or may not be made. In fact, John 3:16-18 doesn't mention at all why anyone who believes wound-up believing. You'd have to go to John 3:3--which says you have to be "born again from above."

The Archangel