1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Calvinism, Arminianism & Free Grace

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by webdog, Sep 8, 2005.

Top Posters
Page 3 of 4
  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    So we sin because of some "aftershock" kind of thing left over from having our sin nature so long? Like an imprint on carpeting? Where is this supported in the Bible? I have never read scripture that pertained to our sin nature being removed, and the sole reason we continue to sin is "habit". This sounds like Evangelical Friends' doctrine.
     
    #41 webdog, Sep 9, 2005
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    My choice of words could have been better, but the fact is when you backslide for a period of time, you are not living your faith. Sin is attributed to sin nature (not left over remnants of it after we are saved).
     
    #42 webdog, Sep 9, 2005
  3. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    0
    According to some FG'ers, sanctification is "wholly unpredictable" since it is dependent on man. An unbiblical doctrine it is.
     
    #43 Andy T., Sep 9, 2005
  4. timothy27

    timothy27 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    No I would say more as if we were marinating in sin and when we are taken out it still seeps from inside us, making it seem as if it is our nature, when it is not. Paul tells us in Romans we are given a new nature, not an as you say additional nature. New implying our old is dead. no longer in us.
     
    #44 timothy27, Sep 9, 2005
  5. timothy27

    timothy27 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    Aftershock implies one time thing, but we both agree ii is not.
     
    #45 timothy27, Sep 9, 2005
  6. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    We do receive a new nature, and become a new creation. If the old is dead, with the meaning of "dead" as gone, all sin would die, disappear (Bible mentions nothing of left over residue, or "marination", let alone a total removal of our sin nature). Tell me, since we are "new creatures", why do we still die a physical death? Your view of sin after one is saved seems to me like 'oops, my bad'
     
    #46 webdog, Sep 9, 2005
  7. timothy27

    timothy27 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am sorry you feel that way, I think where our confusion lies is in our understanding of the term nature. Maybe I can try to explain it better, Man after they have been saved has 2 I's the one I is the sin still indwelt in him the other I is his inner self the one that has been born anew, a new soul heart etc. The outer I still suffers from sin yet is an ever constnat conflict with the inner self, hence what Paul says about he knows what is right buth cannot do it. Before he did not think what he was doing was wrong. Now his new self thru Christ allows him to fight the urges of his outer I, or as PAul calls them his members.

    I would beg you to read carefully for you are putting thoughts and words that are not present in my "mouth"
     
    #47 timothy27, Sep 9, 2005
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    I would beg you to provide scripture supporting the above statement.
     
    #48 webdog, Sep 9, 2005
  9. timothy27

    timothy27 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    #49 timothy27, Sep 9, 2005
  10. timothy27

    timothy27 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    Romans 6:1-4; I could type all 3 chapters but I think easier for you to read them.
     
    #50 timothy27, Sep 9, 2005
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Thank you.
    Romans 6:1 is a direct reference to 5:20 which says "...where sin increased, grace increased all the more." How can sin increase without the sin nature?
    Romans 6:2 "we died TO sin" is explained as an event in the past because we are "in Christ" (6:11) and He died in our place (5:6-8). We are now counted "dead" with Him. This is the fundamental context of chapter 6.
     
    #51 webdog, Sep 9, 2005
  12. timothy27

    timothy27 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know and hence being dead means we are no longer controlled by our sinful desires, they still influence yet we are able to resist. It also says in chapter 6 should we continue sinning so that grace may abound? NO! Paul says emphatically that just because we are justified it gives us no excuse to continue living a life of sin. Granted sin will continue to be aproblem but it is not the single driving forve in our lives as it once was.
     
    #52 timothy27, Sep 9, 2005
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Keyword: "controlled". In order to be controlled by anything, there must be the presence or existence of the object doing the controlling.
     
    #53 webdog, Sep 9, 2005
  14. timothy27

    timothy27 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    When did I say it did not exist? This whole time I have acknowledged that there is sin in us.
     
    #54 timothy27, Sep 9, 2005
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    I know, it's the "left over marination" of the now removed sin nature. You provided no scripture supporting this.
     
    #55 webdog, Sep 9, 2005
  16. timothy27

    timothy27 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    #56 timothy27, Sep 9, 2005
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    I'm done with this circular discussion. Romans 5-8 does not support your outlandish claim that the sin nature has been removed, but since we had it so long, it's the "impression in the carpet" left that causes us to keep sinning. The sin nature is not a category 5 hurricane that upon salvation is downgraded to a permanent tropical storm.
     
    #57 webdog, Sep 9, 2005
  18. ascund

    ascund New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey AresMan:

    You have posted the mostly scholarly reply here in a very long while.

    All I can say is AMEN!
    Lloyd
     
    #58 ascund, Sep 9, 2005
  19. ascund

    ascund New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey timothy27

    Hmmm. It appears I must have misunderstood. I apologize. Your explanation here seems very precise.

    Lloyd
     
    #59 ascund, Sep 9, 2005
  20. timothy27

    timothy27 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    Your analogies are horrible. If you have the same nature you had before Christ then you would still want to do things that do not please God. Therefore you cannot be considered truly saved, because there is no sanctification going on in you. Your heart is changed and with that change so are your desires. Your claims justify living a sinful life after you have become a believer. If you follow yourline of reasoning Jesus died so tht you can go on living the same sinful life you had before him. Nothing has changed. You still desire to do things you should not.
     
    #60 timothy27, Sep 9, 2005
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 3 of 4
Loading...