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Calvinism, Arminianism, how can we find what is the true doctrine from God?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Hobie, Mar 1, 2020.

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  1. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    We see how the early church went into apostasy and fell away and brought in false doctrines and idolatry and paganism in place of the truth it was given from Christ, then the Protestant Reformers came in and partially restored Gods church, but they didnt unite into one true body with all the true doctrines in one church. So how can we know what is the true doctrine from God with so many competing denominations and still many with false philosophy and false traditions being taught. How can we find it?
     
  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    1 John 2:18-29, as well as:

    " Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;
    32 and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. "
    ( John 8:31-32 ).

    " Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
    13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
    15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
    16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
    ( 1 Corinthians 2:12-16 ).
     
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  3. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Believing scripture alone instead of the interpretation of men.. Example is Men believe they are elected by God when in fact the only elect are the Jews. No where in scripture does it ever say gentiles are elect.
    MB
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Elected means to be chosen by God, so all who are saved are called the elect of God in Christ!
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do you see your church as being the true restored church then?
     
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    true, but none of us are Apostles so none of us have "perfect theology"
     
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  7. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Hobie, you asked: Calvinism, Arminianism, how can we find what is the true doctrine from God?

    I asked: Asking for scriptural rebuttal to TULIP

    I had approximately 1200 viewers and 135 responses. None of the responses I read provided any scriptural rebuttals. My post as been taken down. If you can access it, I would like to know what conclusions you draw from it. If indeed there is no scriptural support for Armenianism and there is for TULIP, generally considered Calvinism, I recommend that you start looking for answers to you questions in the TULIP arena.
     
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  8. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Other than the Lord using them to write the Scriptures and their solemn office of "apostle" or "prophet", what made the apostles and prophets any different than their brothers and sisters around them?

    Did they have the ability to understand God's words better than the ones they preached to?
    Are you saying that none of God's precious children can understand the Bible properly, at least at some point in their lives here on earth...
    Written to them and for them ( Romans 15:4, 2 Timothy 2:16, 1 Peter 2:2 ), for their comfort and edification?

    Is that what you really believe, Dave?
     
    #8 Dave G, Mar 3, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
  9. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    " And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).

    "Ordain":

    1 (verb) in the sense of appoint
    Definition
    to make (someone) a member of the clergy
    "Her brother had been ordained as a priest."
    Synonyms
    appoint, call, name, commission, select, elect, invest, install, nominate, anoint, consecrate, frock
    See examples for synonyms


    Thessalonica:

    " Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
    3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
    4 knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. "
    ( 1 Thessalonians 1:1-4 ).

    " For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
    9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;"
    ( 1 Thessalonians 1:8-9 ).

    " For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judæa are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they [have] of the Jews:" ( 1 Thessalonians 2:14 ).
    The believers at Thessalonica suffered the same things at the hands of their own countrymen ( the Gentiles ), as the churches in Judea had of the Jews.

    " But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
    14 whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."
    ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ).

    Paul addresses the believers at Thessalonica as elect.

    He then commends them for turning to God from idols ( the Jews did not worship idols as it was expressly forbidden in the Law of Moses, so that makes the Thessalonicans Gentiles ).
     
    #9 Dave G, Mar 3, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
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  10. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Colosse:
    " Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
    13 forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye."
    ( Colossians 3:12-13 ).

    Paul called the believers at Colosse elect.


    Asia:
    " Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
    2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."
    ( 1 Peter 1:1-2 ).

    Peter called the believers in Galatia and Asia ( Colosse being a city in Asia ) elect, and addressed them in this letter as "strangers", which is the Jewish term for anyone inside or outside Israel that was not a Jew ( Exodus 23:9-12, Leviticus 16:29, Leviticus 18:26, Numbers 9:14 ).



    Titus, a Greek ( Gentile ):
    " But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:" ( Galatians 2:3 ).

    ...addressed by Paul, as well as others here in the epistle to the Galatians, and Paul addresses him as elect in his letter to him:

    " Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
    2 in hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
    3 but hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
    4 to Titus, [mine] own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour."
    ( Titus 1:1-4 ).
    There is only one faith, and that is the faith of God's elect.


    Ephesus, capital of the great goddess Diana of the Ephesians ( Acts of the Apostles 19:28 ), a Greek goddess of the Gentiles:

    " according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" ( Ephesians 1:4 ).

    The Ephesians believers were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
    They were "elect":


    "Elect":
    adjective
    plural noun: elect
    1. (of a person) chosen or singled out.
      "one of the century's elect"



    May God bless you richly in your studies of His precious word, sir.
     
    #10 Dave G, Mar 3, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
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  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Not according to scripture the only chosen or elect of God is the Jew.
    MB
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I believe that the Holy Spirit himself inspired thru them in a way that whatever theology they penned down to and for us was not of themselves, but fully of God! Scriptures have perfect theology, but none of us know it fully correctly!
    Big difference between peter, paul, and me, as they were gifted to heal, do miracles, write scriptures, while we were not!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are all called priests and saints for God, and all elect in Christ!
     
  14. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Being called that by your self and others does not make it so. It's still false doctrine.
    MB
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God called us those terms Himself, did not know He has false doctrine!
     
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  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Prove it with scripture
    MB
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    No proof of election Romans 8 43 does not exist . None of the other verses prove your position as usual
    MB
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Romans 8:33!
     
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  20. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Very true, I like that.
     
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