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Calvinism is the Gospel

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Dec 25, 2019.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    When we ask what is the gospel, the good news, several answers can be offered.
    We could say;

    1.Jesus......he is indeed great news, but if someone has not heard of Him would they really understand how he is good news?

    2.Jesus saves.....that also is great news, but the question then is saves who? saves what? why is it necessary?

    3.Jesus saves sinners....also good news, but saves them from what?

    4.Jesus saves sinners in Christ. nice, now what does it mean to be In Christ?

    5.Jesus saves elect sinners given to Him by the Father..great news, when and how did this take place,etc

    Some will offer the historical "facts" of the gospel....

    1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)
    15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

    2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    They offer the historic facts, but ignore the words...'according to the scriptures'

    CHS picked up on this and offered this from one of his sermons;

    On Calvinism



    It is no novelty, then, that I am preaching; no new doctrine. I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines that are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are truly and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus. By this truth I make my pilgrimage into the past, and as I go, I see father after father, confessor after confessor, martyr after martyr, standing up to shake hands with me . . . Taking these things to be the standard of my faith, I see the land of the ancients peopled with my brethren; I behold multitudes who confess the same as I do, and acknowledge that this is the religion of God's own church. (Spurgeon's Sovereign Grace Sermons, Still Waters Revival Books, p. 170)

    I have my own opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel if we do not preach justification by faith without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing unchangeable eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross. (Autobiography: 1, The Early Years, p. 168)



    George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists. (Sermons, Vol. 2, p. 124)



    I do not ask whether you believe Calvinism. It is possible that you do not. But I believe you will before you enter heaven. I am persuaded that as God may have washed your hearts, He will wash your brains before you enter heaven. (Sermons, Vol. 1, p. 92)



    Calvinism is the Gospel. (Sermons, Vol. 1, p. 50)



    Calvinism did not spring from Calvin. We believe that it sprang from the great Founder of all truth. (Sermons, Vol. 7, p. 298)



    I am not a Calvinist by choice, but because I cannot help it. (Sermons, Vol. 18, p. 692)

    Most Calvinists understand that the wording "according to the scriptures" means the gospel is all about Jesus bring the whole man, to the whole Christ, efficaciously.

    Some attempt to fragment this understanding and call it a theory, or a philosophy. Those who grasp the doctrine derive it according to the scriptures.

    A correct understanding of the fall into sin and death is quite necessary. Spiritual and physical death happened at the time of the fall. Denying spiritual death happened is fatal to a correct biblical understanding.

    Denying The penal substitutionary atonement also leads to gross errors.

    There is no area of theology that does not intertwine with the teaching.

    On another thread, some suggest keeping it separate from the other topics on the BB.
    That would be easier said than done.
     
    #1 Iconoclast, Dec 25, 2019
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  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So.....in calvinism is the gospel and you do not believe in the gospel (calvinism) then you are not saved?
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Dec 25, 2019
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So those who are Christians but not calvinist are not really Christians because they reject calvinism?
     
    #3 Revmitchell, Dec 25, 2019
  4. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I will not speak for Icon, but as an ardent Calvinist, my answer to your question is a resounding "NO!" While I would love nothing more than for us to be like-minded in this area of our theology, I have no basis for questioning your standing in Christ. Our theological differences may hinder certain types of joint cooperation in ministry but they do not make us enemies. If we are both in Christ then we are on the same team.
     
    #4 Reformed, Dec 25, 2019
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  5. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    I was at that time a Christian who fought against the bit of God's Sovereign Supremacy over all things.
     
    #5 Particular, Dec 25, 2019
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  6. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Reproof from Spurgeon himself, and the irenic Tom Ascol of several years ago:

    [Calvinism enthusiasts invariably snip off the rest of the phrase uttered by Spurgeon early in his ministry]

    Spurgeon did not stop with "Calvinism is the gospel", he added "and nothing else"!

    [Do Calvinists stick to The Gospel, and nothing else? Many today don't.]

    Spurgeon expanded on the "and nothing else" idea as his ministry matured:

    from Spurgeon's Complete Works:

    "It is one thing to believe in the Doctrines of Grace, but quite another thing to accept all the encrustations which have formed upon those doctrines and also a very different matter to agree with the spirit which is apparent in some who profess to propagate the pure Truth of God."

    in his Autobiography:

    "I have a dog, that has a rug in which he sleeps; and when I go home to-night, he will bring it out, and shake it before me,—not that he particularly cares for his rug, but because he knows that I shall say, 'I'll have it,' and then he will bark at me, and in his language say, 'No, you won't.' There are some people who fetch out the doctrines of grace just in that way. I can see them trotting along with the doctrine of election just in order that some Arminian brother may dispute with them about it, and that then they may bark at him. Do not act so, beloved."

    And some years ago Calvinist Tom Ascol leveled with the Florida state paper the Baptist Witness:

    "'I would not say Calvinism is the Gospel, without qualification'....Spurgeon’s other preaching made clear he did not equate the five points of Calvinism with the Gospel itself, Ascol said, 'And though I would have never said it that way either, [in the past] I would have been content to just throw it in the face of people who didn’t agree with Calvinism and let them grapple with it. But now I want to be more gracious'."
     
    #6 Jerome, Dec 25, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
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  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I did not say that, Spurgeon did not say that.
    What did we say?
    A person is a Christian at the point of regeneration.
    A new Christian may or may not be able to give a solid definition of the trinity, justification, propitiation, reconciliation,elect , biblical foreknowledge ,eschatology, etc.
    That does not change his standing before God.
    That does not change the doctrine at all.
    In time God will allow him to understand what he needs to be a witness,and obey My.28.
    The closer he gets to truth, the more effective he will be.
    God being Sovereign is able to use even the joy, excitement, and zeal of a novice.
     
    #7 Iconoclast, Dec 25, 2019
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  8. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    John 5 also demonstrates Calvinism

    37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
    38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
    39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
    40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

    v38, having God's word abiding in you, means you are regenerated, so then you are 'of God', and you will believe in Christ. Jesus taught it here also in John 8.

    And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

    v40, the natural state of a man, they are unwilling to come to Christ even to have eternal life, now how deceived is that to not want Christ and eternal life. It is because they are not of God, so are at enmity with Christ and God the Father. Even in the natural, when people try to communicate, if they have enmity, they will not hear you.
     
    #8 Scott Downey, Dec 25, 2019
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  9. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    #3



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
    #9 InTheLight, Dec 25, 2019
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  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes SD,

    Good point. It takes a "hearing ear" to welcome the truth which is so interwoven in scripture.
    To take it apart would be like trying to remove veins or arteries from a body.
     
    #10 Iconoclast, Dec 25, 2019
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    InTheLight,
    sure it is...while it was spoken to them face to face, it was written for our learning as was the Exodus;

    1 Corinthians 10 King James Version (KJV)
    10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

    2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

    3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

    4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

    6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

    7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

    8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

    9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

    10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

    11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
     
    #11 Iconoclast, Dec 25, 2019
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  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    It also doesnt apply the way they are claiming
     
    #12 Revmitchell, Dec 25, 2019
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  13. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    HaHa, that is #64:Tongue
    Totally agree with you, scripture is written for us. Unbelievers dont care.

    2 Timothy 3:14-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

    14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
     
    #13 Scott Downey, Dec 25, 2019
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  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I wonder how many people have been driven from the gospel of Christ by well intentioned Calvinists who preach Calvinism as if it were the gospel itself. Spurgeon spoke strongly against “cage staged” Calvinists (although he did not use the term). James White outright condemned the “caged staged” element within the Reformed camp. Both Spurgeon and White recognized the damage Calvinism can do in the hands of immature Christians. I suspect this is true of anyone who holds their understanding as if it were the actual gospel of Jesus Christ.

    The mark of a Christian is that he or she leans not on an understanding of the gospel but on the gospel itself and the One of whom the gospel testifies. The spiritual complexity of the gospel is not a cognitive challenge. Our understanding is finite. We see now through a glass darkly. Resting in the gospel some Christians will understand God’s work, much of what is not actually stated in Scripture, to be akin to Calvinism. Others will see it as free-will theology, Arminianism, or something in between. But Christians cannot exchange their understanding, their theology, for the gospel itself without being unfaithful to the One who died to give us life.

    Calvinism, Arminianism, and free-will theology are human understandings of the gospel. They are reasoned interpretations of God’s working of redemption throughout the Biblical narrative. They incorporate the exact same text, affirm the same Scriptures but arrive at different conclusions via human philosophy and reasoning.

    That is the benefit of discussing such things. Christians are able to explain their understanding and how they arrive at a particular conclusion. People of an opposing view may not be persuaded to change positions, but they can better understand their brothers in Christ and re-examine their own understanding. Christians do not have to agree to help one another, and they do not have to be disagreeable in their disagreements.

    Is Calvinism the gospel? Of course not. Calvinism is not the power of God unto salvation for all who believe. But the gospel of Jesus Christ is. Ism-envy (“my ism is better than yours”) is not a Christian trait. We separate on one level with other believers over doctrine, but on another we are united in Christ (in the one true and complete gospel held by every single believer).
     
    #14 JonC, Dec 25, 2019
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  15. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    None have been driven away from God by Calvinism. Anyone who departs from the faith are not of US, they are of the devil.

    A big problem with non Calvinists, they do not know enough scriptures so they feed on fleshy ideas like your suggestion.

    Just one example that Christ loses none of those whom the Father gives to Him, AND THERE ARE MORE FROM SCRIPTURE.
    1 John 2
    18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[d] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

    19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

    20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things.

    21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
     
    #15 Scott Downey, Dec 25, 2019
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  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Apparently we have one still in the cage.
     
    #16 Revmitchell, Dec 25, 2019
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  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Do you believe the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe?

    Do you believe anything less than the true gospel is sufficient for salvation?

    Do you believe there is one true gospel?

    Do you believe Calvinism is the power of God to salvation for all who believe?
     
    #17 JonC, Dec 25, 2019
  18. Reformed

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    No. You do not get to say that unchallenged. It is an arrogant statement.

    The issue is not whether non-Calvinists do not know "enough scriptures", the issue is that they disagree with Calvinist conclusions. Now, on both sides of the issue, there are doctrinally illiterate individuals. I know fellow Calvinists who cannot argue their way out of a wet paper bag but they keep spouting off Calvinist talking points. They annoy me far more than those Arminians who do the same thing.

    The problem with arrogance is that it blinds you to the truth. It also shuts down any potential for a profitable discussion. This is true even if you are right. Can you make your points in a gracious tone? It does not mean that you have to compromise what you believe. I certainly do not. Is your goal to persuade your brother of the truth or bludgeon him to death?
     
    #18 Reformed, Dec 25, 2019
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  19. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Your being kind of silly here with your accusations against Calvinism!
     
    #19 Scott Downey, Dec 25, 2019
  20. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    If they really knew the scriptures as in understood them, they would not say these things.
    Why put up with false teaching. Just like Paul telling the Galatians, begin with the spirit and end with the flesh..There is nothing arrogant about telling the truth, Jesus spoke harsh words, to those who are slow to believe all that the prophets had written.
     
    #20 Scott Downey, Dec 25, 2019
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