Calvinism Purged at BJU?

Quote: Originally Posted by gb93433
From what I remember when I had Leon McBeth for class he told us that Gill's church nearly died until Spurgeon came laong.
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This is an awkward post because it is quoted in Spurgeon's biography of Gil, that his church grew beyond capacity and neccesitated the move to what would become Spurgeon's Church.

Spurgeon thought highly of Gil, his theology and pastoral successes.

Cheers,

Jim

 

C.H.S. admired Fuller;but his respect for Gill was quite evident in his writings and sermons.Remember how he gave his twin sons Gill's works?

Please define "the Calvinist allergy".I'd really like to know what you mean by that.

 

How would you characterize the beliefs of these "hyper-Calvinists"?I find the name of H-C bandied about without context much of the time by non-Cals.

 

David Bebbington, a well know Calvinist scholar who lives in Scotlant, gave a series of lectures at the seminary in Prague in October. He is a very friendly, open to disucssion fellow. One morning he came to the library and checked out several books and we had a nice discussion. Two comments he made impressed me.

1. Calvin would neither recognize or approve of most the ideas preached by Calvinists today.

2. That both predestination and free will are true doctrines. The problem we have is fitting them together in a rational way.


It might be an interesting thread discussing how these seemingly contridictory beliefs are both true.

 

Those I have known tend to not do evangelism. They do not see any importance in it because they believe everything is already done by God and there is no need to give out the gospel because God has predestined some to hell and some to heaven. Others I have met are not sure if they are the elect. They doubt if they are saved.

 

It was rather sad when I asked some calvinists on the BB to interpret Is. 45:7, Amos 3:6, and Lam 3:38. They never addressed those verses directly. Over and over I pressed them on those verses and they continually avoided the interpretation. I asked myself, "Where are the calvinists who really believe their Bible?"

 

I do not find that hard at all. It is much like the farmer who turns his cows out to pasture. The farmer determines where he will put his cows but the cows determine where they will eat in the pasture. It is a matter of God's choice and my choice. His choice is to give me my choice within limited parameters.

 

Careful now, GB. I addressed these specific verses just several days ago. I have seen others address them as well.

And don't forget that Mt. Calvary is a very evangelistic church. They have a regular practice of neighborhood evangelism.

 

We see here misunderstandings of Calvinism. God did not predestinate anyone to hell. He passed them by to their own destination, condemned by their own sin.

On the so-called free will of man, it is so under the theological term of God's Permissive Will which is an aspect of God's absolute sovereignty.

People tend to lump together all the intimate details of theology, when they should be divided by time, execution and originator. Sometimes we see God acting in His sovereignty. Then we see man acting in his own determinative will. How can God be absolutely sovereign and yet man bend the finger of God in His face? It happens under God's permissive will. Thus far and no further. Man can make his own mistakes and even do good things, but in the end, these too are under the absolute sovereignty of God.

Man is responsible for his sins; God remains responsible for redemption.

Cheers,

Jim

 

While I understand what you mean. However it is my understanding that near the end of Gil's time, the church had begun a serious decline.

 

The only posts I remember are those who said I was fatalistic and God does not create evil. Then when pressed on the interpretation of those verses it was rather obvious they never interpreted those verses only to make venemous remarks instead. Then I challenged them on their limited view of God's sovereignty. I do not remember seeing that you were a part of that discussion.

I guess I missed it when you adressed those verses. Where did you address them and certainly I was not referring to you. It was in a past much earlier on another posting.

 

I wasn't there, so I can't really say. A lot did happen in the churches between Gil's time and Spurgeon's. We include the massive revivals in Wales as one example.

How much do we read about Spurgeon's church after his death. It went down as well and was somewhat revived after the war years. It never did reach the massive assemblies of his day.

Cheers,

Jim