1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Calvinism Vs. Arminianism Vs. Biblicism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Jordan Kurecki, Nov 14, 2014.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have to agree with Icon (his quote funtion was amiss)

    All the Father gives...if you are not given, you are not coming.

    There is no if...ALL the Father gives...SHALL COME. Looks very effectual...all that are given shall come.

    The Father has NOT given everyone to Christ. Jesus owns the rights to all men, yet He dies for those given to Him as their surety. That is why they are saved.
    _________________________________________________________________

    No giving of certain ones from the Father to the Son, means no coming to Christ. No drawing --means no salvation for those who are not thus united with Jesus. But the Good news is that some have indeed been brought nigh to the Lord by the Lord.
     
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    I never said these verses teach Irresistible Grace. I do not like that term but prefer Regeneration. That is God through His Sovereign Grace brings to life that which is spiritually dead.

    Consider what Jesus Christ Himself said concerning the New Birth or Regeneration:

    John 3:3-10
    3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
    5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
    9. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
    10. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


    In the above Scripture Jesus Christ is speaking of the New Birth or Regeneration. Notice He says it is the work of the Holy Spirit and comparing it to the wind states: but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Notice that man plays no part in the New Birth. That is solely the work of the Holy Spirit.

    *************************************************

    The following is from a post on another thread:

    IRRESISTIBLE GRACE!

    An unacceptable term because Arminians like to say that we, who believe in the Biblical Doctrines of Salvation by Grace Alone, believe that people are dragged kicking and screaming into the Church of Jesus Christ. {Now I have seen some mothers dragging their small children down the aisle to join the church, but!} Rather than Irresistible Grace a much better term in my opinion is Effectual Calling and still better is Regeneration. Regeneration is solely the work of God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, whereby those who are spiritually dead in trespass and sin are made spiritual alive and are brought into union with Jesus Christ. Whereas the unregenerate person has no disposition, interest, or desire for the things of God the regenerate person is a new creation and is now receptive to the ‘effectual call’ of the Holy Spirit.

    Ephesians 2:1-8
    1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
    2. in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
    3. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
    4. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
    5. even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
    6. and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus,
    7. in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
    8. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

    2 Corinthians 5:17. Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


    {Note}I should point out that Regeneration is followed by Conversion. Conversion is the result of conscious act of a regenerate person in which he responds to the Gospel, and turns to God in repentance and faith. In conversion the regenerate man exercises the gift of faith bestowed upon regeneration. Regeneration must precede conversion since Scripture tells us: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [1 Corinthians 2:14] It is important to realize that conversion is a personal experience of a regenerate person with Holy God. Therefore, since no two people are alike we should not expect that they will have the same conversion experience. God saves people one at a time!
     
Loading...