Can a Darwinian Be a Christian?

There are those who believe Darwin was right an yet claim to be a Christian. Of course you cannot follow two masters.

There are those who calim to follow the teaching of Calvin and also claim to be a Christian. No one can follow two masters though.

Both people claim to follow the teachings of a man and follow Jesus.

 

If we say that what is here today originated from a big bang followed by primordial slim over billions of years, are we not speaking about origins? This is certainly more than gradual changes over time.

It is true that origins cannot be explored by the scientific method, such cannot be proved nor disproved scientifically. This is a crucial point in this discussion. We have no witnesses nor empirical data to examine scientifically. We do, however, have the Word of God, and testimony, see John Ch. 1, all of it, especially vss.3-4. Yep, we accept this testimony on faith, unable to verify it. Is this not what the evolutionist, theistic or otherwise does as well--accepts the theory of evolution on faith, being unable to verify it?

Sounds like all three world views belong in the religion class, not in science class at all--they cannot be proven or disproven scientifically.

Having studied this on many occasions, I have concluded that the creation model fits the evidence better than the evolution model, whatever that may be, today--yep, evening and morning--one day. By the way, many theories of evolution are statistically impossible given 4.5 billion or 450 billion years.-

Where did all the information come from for the Cambrian Explosion? Jay Gould called it: punctuated equilibrium.

Someone is confused for sure.

The comment about the education system is interesting. I make the observation that public education has had a problem since its inception and it has been getting worse since the theory of evolution has been advanced and prayer has been removed.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

You are right about someone being confused. You keep jumping between cosmology and biolog

Selah,

Bro. Jamesy...two different subjects. And indeed, biological evolution is observable and is on solid ground as a viable theory to explain the diversity, and similarity, of life on earth.

As for prayer being removed from public school, you are incorrect. Students are allowed to pray, read the Bible, and other free exercise of their religion in non-distracting ways. What is not allowed is for public employees to sanction or lead prayers. I never cease to be amazed at those who want that to happen, but would be the first to squeal if an Islamic teacher wanted to lead the class in a prayer to Allah. Religion is taught at home and church. The public schools belong to everyone, and no parent should fear their children are being taught to pray to gods other than what they teach their own children. That is all I will say about that, since it is the beginning of a derailment.

 

I am in the educational system and you would be amazed at the number of babies raising babies today. The parents follow their child around like a little puppy dog rather than forcing their child to face the consequences of their actions. Parents even call the university wanting their kids to be watched and looked after. Their child is over 18 and an adult. They buy their kids everything rather than making the child earn their own money and pay for their own things.

For those who think it is worse have not poked their head inside of a classroom in many years. The fact is that high schools today are about one year ahead of where they were the generation before. Now if the student and parents support laziness then that can happen. However if the child and parents work hard then kids can earn college credit in high school.

 

Sorry, I seem to be having difficulty understanding your agonic declination. You seem to gloss over the main points of this discussion. The cosmos and the bios must be considered for any reasonable discussion to evolve.

Look out for Amtrak.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

Babies raising babies

We digress considerably.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

The fact is that the schols have gotten better academically the last 20 years. The problems is lazy parents in the church. You cannot blame the schools for lousy parenting. I teach college students and get complaints from parents because their lazy child has to start working. I refuse to pass a lazy student.

Anytime you have people you have problems. I do not have a problem so much with the public school system as I do with watered down churches that expect nothing from their members.

 

Please offer a preponderance of evidence to lead one to the conclusion that public schools have improved in academics in the past 20 years. The security systems to interdict guns and drugs have surely improved. Happy study hall and home room.

My eldest grandson recently graduated High School--home school version. He has never been to public school. He is an accomplished musician, baseball player, football player and photographer. He will probably make a living taking pictures and selling them for cash--working his way through college. It probably will not be pornography. He is also a witness of Christ--through teen pact.

Agree, the problems are rooted in the church/home. Our country has a deep seated amorality which has torn the family unit asunder. Only God can turn it around.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

Just needed to be said again! :thumbs:

 

Genesis 1:3,"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." How? God spoke. How long did He take to make it all? Six days--day one through day six. To believe evolution of any sort, one must throw out and completely ignore the first and second chapters of the Book of Genesis.

While we are shredding the Book of Beginnings let's throw out the gospels too. They do not fit man's image of himself either. God does not make junk revelations--He is HOLY HOLY HOLY. This our problem--we ain't. We have trouble with Omni--knowledge, presence and power. Our only omni is depravity and we somehow think we can remedy ourselves. Jesus paid it all--He also created it all.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

People have always been people. Compare the schools today to the crimes in the OT. They are no different. People do not always uphold righteousness and justice but rather deceit and lies. The churhc is no different. There are liars in every church. Some churches have pedophiliacs as pastors. Crimes have been committed in churches. God is God and people are people.

I can remember the day when I could take a gun to school. Guns have been taken to schools for years. Many of my friends would hunt after school until it got dark in a few hours.

When my daughter was in first grade I told her that if she was involved in anything illegal that I would call the police. She know I would too. We have nevewr had a problem.

My dad who is 78 told of the day a high teacher was beat up by a citizen when he was in high school because that dad did not believe his son was given a porr grade. Remember the days when kids through adults were given Sunday School grades. Try that today on your won church. People are no worse or better today. People just choose to remember the good old days because that is what they want to believe. When I did my student teaching in 1981 my master teacher told me that the previous teacher had been beaten up by some students. At the college where I teach one of the professors told me that he was attacked by a student three times in a row when he taught high school. The professor knows martial arts and put that kid on his rear each time. It was the mother who threatened to sue the teacher at the time. If the Christians in the community would run those kind of parents out of their community then that kind of behavior would cease. The problem is spineless parents.

99% of the students I see on a day to day basis are well mannered and respectful to me. I have seldom ever had a problem. On the first day of class I tell my students that if they violate a rule they get one warning and be asked to leave. The next time they violate the rule they will be asked to leave permanently. In most cases when I taught high school if I had a problem with a student I had an even worse problem with the parent. There was a case when I had two students removed from class never to return and dropped from class with a F. One never graduated. The other just got mad and did not learn anything. About six months later the one who never graduated came by my home to see me. That told me everything. He learned a lesson about life. I believe that what I taught him was a lesson that someday his actions needed to stop. Life's lessons are not always easy.

The real problem is not guns in the school but dad and moms who are children raising babies. The problem is that parents (who are about as mature as children) are raising babies not raising them up to be responsible adults. Sometimes parents need to help their children fail so they can know what failure is and how to get up again. Sometimes their children need a dad with a strong hand.

You asked for an example. The fact is that college bound kids today have more homework and more is expected of them than the previous generation. My daughter had a 3.93 GPA and received a 31 on the ACT. She was 29th in her class of about 330 students. Academically she has had the equivalent of a large part of one year of college. That kind of intensity was virtually unheard of a generation ago.

For the student who wants to play and the parent who is lazy then laziness does occur. People sometimes think that testing would solve all of the problems. It does not, but in fact creates additional problems. I know of a school district that required a test before graduating. Some of the students who took the test early and passed became lazy.

The one question I have asked for years is this: If the schools are so bad then why do we not see more teachers kids in trouble.

When I pastored I had a parent come and ask me about what he could do with his rebellious son who was often truant and caught for stealing on a military base. Shortly after the discussion with the parent the child did some damage to the church. One of the fire fighters in the community called me and told me that he saw a dor to the church open. I reported it to the police. The first home they went to was the home of that same child. The child confessed that he did the damage. The parents went out of their way to make my life miserable. The deacons went against me. That kind of action told me everything. The parents and deacons were afraid to take tough action. They did not want the church's image tarnished. Their actions spoke loud and clear to the non-Christians in the community. It was amazing how many non-Christians and other pastors in the community stood with me against the deacons in that church. Yet the deacons and the parents were spinless. That was in the church!

It is like the old saying, "You can only police those who want to be policed."

I can assure you that if the public wanted high accountability it would happen. If the public would commend good schools and condemn the people who criticize teachers who make their students work hard we would see something very different.

I could show you several letters and emails I have gotten from former students but very few from their parents. Often I received criticism from parents (Christians too) about how much homework I give. Last year I had a parent approach me about how much homeowrk I gave her son. He is a junior in college. Before she had a chance to get very far into the conversation I told her that what she told me has happened most of my life but I have had many students thank me a few years after graduation.

Most people will buckle under criticism. I have been able to keep focused on my reponsibility. I just let parents criticize me and get mad but I just keep on going. Their children see my actions too.

I am not so concerned with those things around me as I am what is going on in the church.

 

One of the tricks the Gnostics and proto-Gnostics used to play was to suggest that there was some kind of special knowledge that was needed to ascend the archons and become enlightened intellectually, and thus redeemed. Seems to me that by suggesting someone must believe exactly as one person does about some secondary issue we have stepped deeper towards Gnosticism.

 

I'd rather be labeled an ignorant fundamentalist than an ignornant atheist! :laugh:

 

hmmmm...so much could be said about this phrase...

 

If the God you think you know, isn't the God who is, then you have a serious problem.

 

Then each and every one of us has a serious problem. Why? Because none of us totally know God. The finite can never totally understand the infinite.

 

The Spirit of God reproves/convicts men of sin not science.

When they come to the light and are born from above everything else is secondary.

HankD

 

If you think the God you know is not the God who is then you have a very serious problem.

To think one cannot know God makes scripture a lie.

Phil. 3:8-11, "More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead."

1 Jn 4:7, "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God."

 

I can know my wife without knowing how the electrical impulses in her body keep her heart beating and her brain working.

I can know God without knowing all about him in His magnitude.

 

I believe the Scriptures. (No, I am not getting off on a KJVO tangent.)
I believe the worlds were made by and through Christ.
I believe God speaks something from nothing.

But I don't presume to know "how" that happened. I don't even know all the theories. I have to be frank, however, I just can't see how the world can only be 6000 years old. It just doesn't make sense based on the history of man, and the fact that recorded history began after the age of the dinosaurs. Surely the world is older than 6000 years!