Can I Know I'm Going to Heaven When I Die?

hi Free at last. i appreciate your comments. but in light of the book of James, and the dire warnings about falling away, and the parables of Jesus, i guess i just cannot see it the way you do. and the funny thing is, there was a time in my life, i would have agreed whole heartedly with you. there is truly eternal damnation though for those who fall short. i do not believe that easy believism is going to cut it. trust me, most of my family would agree with you. they are of the same mind in most areas. but damnation is eternal. an eternity of being salted with fire, an eternity with the devil and his angels, an eternity, of breathing the most foul substances that we cannot even describe. and eternity of hate, and eternity of Gods wrath being poured out. i am not willing to take the chance, that all i have to do, is just believe. the 10 foolish virgins were just that. virgins. representative of Christians. born again Christians. in the parable, they fell short. there are so many warnings in scripture, i think its safe to say, eternal security is not a correct doctrine. nor was it believed in until the reformation. none of the Church Fathers taught this belief. just as the doctrine of soul sleep, was not founded until E.G. White came along, the teaching of Eternal security never existed before the reformation. Peace to you and yours. :1_grouphug:

 

Calvin let's do it this way. Let ma ask you a question. Why is man lost?

 

Calvin, first, thank you for your service to your country.

Your profile says you are a member of FBC Atlanta.

With regard to eternal security, which you deny, I don't think your pastor teaches this. Or did I miss something in Dr. Stanley's teaching.

I can't imagine the majority of the folks at FBC Atlanta would hold your view. Am I right?

 

Stanley believes and teaches the doctrine of Millenial Exclusion, so to some degree he does teach that. I'm not sure if this is Calvin's understanding or not, or maybe he is unaware of what Stanley believes on the matter.

 

Here's One More Crucial Question You Need to Know!

I run into a ton of people who claim to be Christians, and church goers, but there is one thing they can't provide, and for me this is crucial (maybe not for you) . . .

Do you know when and where you were when you saw the "light" and accepted Him into your heart and made Him your Savior?

Maybe this isn't important to many of you, but, if you don't remember exactly what you were doing. Where you were. What day, and what time of day. Well, in my way of looking at it, your spiritual birth date is probably more important than your physical date of birth!

How can you claim to know Jesus, if you don't know when you took Him in, and He took you in?

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

 

There are many people who cannot give a date when they were saved.

 

What Do You Wnat Me To Say?

As I said, that is simply my opinion! However, I remember my spiritual birth date, the time of the day, who led me to Him, when I was baptized... I really believe in what I posted FAL, sorry if you don't! It doesn't mean they are lost, but it is interesting that a person doesn't remember the most important decision they will ever make! It is a little suspicious, in my way of looking at a persons testimony! And I believe it can be something the devil will chip away at, and use to cast doubt in their own heart and spirit!

 

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[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]I understand why you hold your view. You are caught up in the idea that salvation comes when "someone leads another in some "prayer of faith" at some moment through some emotional instance, and then announces to the person now you are a child of God, you are saved! However no one ever got saved by a prayer of faith. Second many people have asked Christ into their hearts dozens of times and been baptized many times. I know of some who have been baptized as many as 5 times and maybe some others more. I have personally went through it twice and make no claim or have no particular desire to set a date. In fact I would have to go back and dig up an old bible to see when I was saved to even point to a year much less a day. I simply say it has been 25 to 30 years ago or in that range.[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]There are many reasons why someone does not know an exact date and there is nothing suspicious about it. Such a statement violates the word of God as to how to know if we are saved or to know if another is saved. Scripture says we will know them by their fruit not their claim of some date, which could be phony by the way. And we know about ourselves because we keep the commandments and have the proper understanding of the gospel. Not because we can say on such and such a day I prayed a prayer. Salvation has not taken place unless there has been a change in the life of the person the change remains, grows and they do not go back to the mire as a way of life. What you are proposing is not of God, it is some personal evaluation that goes against everything that the scripture teaches as to how to know and should never be used to confirm, deny or even hint to conversion or the lack there of. [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
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[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]There is nothing wrong with being able to point to a certain event on a certain day, at a certain time, with a certain person, to say that was when I was saved, as long as all that certain stuff does not override what scripture says will be in the persons life once they are saved. However there has been a many a people who have been able to say on such and such a date I was saved only to fall away sometimes in a very short time and others after years of seeming to service, because all they really had was a prayer and a date without any reality of salvation. So it can be a good thing if someone really needs that extra comfort in their life to confirm their salvation as long as they do not deny the evidences that scripture say will be present in a true believer, but it can also be a very dangerous thing to look to a day and time and allow that to offer the confidence we desire when the truth is that our lives are a total contradiction to what the bible points out as the evidence of a new birth and worse it is an outrage to make any evaluation, hold any suspicion of someone who cannot point to an exact time of their salvation when their life and understanding of the gospel agrees with what scripture that will be present in the true believer. [/SIZE][/SIZE]
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It makes no difference if there is a date, but you better recall a moment or time when it occurred. I may not be able to give a date for the best cookout I attended...but I can give you the details of the cookout. Justification is an event, the biggest one we will ever experience even over our marriage or birth of our children. If you don't know the details I would worry.

...and after reading your above reply to RD, it has nothing to do with the "repeat after me" idea...I don't know how you even got that from his post to be honest.

 

There are many things listed in the Bible about the signs of a believer. The fruits of the Spirit, loving the brethren, following Christ, obeying Christ are a few. But nowhere have I read that the sign of a believer is remembering the exact date and time they were saved.

 

Agreed...but passing from spiritual death to life and becoming a new creation is a paramount event. I would have serious questions for someone who had no idea when they were saved and the circumstances it involved.

 

I get what you're saying, but people who were saved at a very young age have trouble giving all the details, yet they are saved nonetheless and the life they lead and their devotion to Christ are the evidence.

 

Yes, they just need to know it happened and why. i was saved at 7 and can remember some of the details, but not all. I clearly remember asking my dad if I was going to Heaven based on what Brother Gandee was preaching about Hell (revival preacher, I remember the spit flying from his mouth )

I won't question John Piper's salvation by any stretch of the imagination, but if I came across someone who stated "I can't remember a time when I didn't believe" as I recall Piper saying, I would ask that person what it is they believe. Of course I think Piper was talking about what you mentioned, possibly being young and not recalling back much further than that, but I think these situations are more the aberration and not the norm.

 

Thanks WD

I am glad to see that you are seeing where I am coming from.

As for me, it had more to do with the spiritual light who came on within me, not that my girlfriend shared the Gospel with me.

For the first time in my 20 years on this earth, I knew that I had found the answer to all my sin, my problems, and being a religous person. I felt and knew that an exchange took place in my soul (on-the-spot) that moved out religion and replaced it with a personal relationship.

As I prayed with her, I knew that I now had something special, and it was like coming home. The eternal peace I had been searching and longing for but hadn't found in my first twenty years of life was now found. And my life has not been the same since that moment in time.

The date was December 24, 1966 in San Dimas Canyon (San Dimas, CA). As we sat by the side of the road and listened to the creek ripple across the rocks a few feet from the car, the birds filled the air with their melodic sounds of joy, and a light breeze made its way gently through the tall eucalyptus and California Oak trees that surround the stream and both sides of the two lane road.

That was a day the devil can never take away from me, or make me doubt. I entered a relationship with the Father through the death and resurrection of my Savior, and I was blessed from head to toe.

As a teen I'd sit in my friends Baptist and Assembly of God churches and marvel at those who had neat testimonies about their salvation experience, and even though I was a card carrying member of the Lutheran church, those testimonies impressed me and made me long for an answer as to why, when they shared, I felt so empty inside.

However, that Christmas Eve experience brought me to the place of knowing just what they knew. I now had the same joy of knowing and having a saving relationship with my Father.

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

 

HI Freeatlast. lets make sure im understanding you correctly, before i answer. are you refering to the original sin of adam and eve? thx, and sorry for taking so long to get back to you. Peace :wavey:

 

hello Annsni. is it by grace, or faith? you stated it is by grace in one part, then said that faith alone was suffiecient. its probably off topic though. my apologies. have some views on that though, which we can take on at another time. heres my thinking though, we cant just take parts of the bible that seem to agree with us. we either take the whole council of God, or none. we either accept all the revelation, or not. if you are correct, then Paul was mistaken, when he stated in 1 corinthians 9:27 that if he did not keep himself in line, he himself could become a castaway. also what do we do with galations, where it states that those who seek to be justified under the law of Moses, have FALLEN from GRACE. many passages that contradict the o.s.a.s. eternal security belief. the 10 virgins? easy enough. nowhere is an unbeliever refered to as a virgin. on the contrary, they are called dogs, harlots, other assorted nasty names, but never virgins. only those that are of the household of faith are reffered to in the term of virgin. the very word virgin means complete. an unbeliever is not. just something to think about. and if im wrong, I lose nothing. i attempt to live a life pleasing to the Lord, and have a good hope, for my eternity. those that think it is of faith alone? i think they are deceiving themselves. i hope i am not upsetting you with my views, im finding this interesting. here i go with the wavey guy again! lol!:wavey:

 

that is one interpretation i guess, my friend. i dont see it that way, and i think it goes against the plain teaching of scripture. how would one who never has read the bible interpret this verse on first reading? how come the Church fathers, never taught that once we believed we could never go back. on the contrary, it was always taught that a person could lose their salvation, and could again find themselves in their same old life, and worse off than in the beginning. until, Calvin came along, the only ones who taught eternal security were the pagans. who taught, if you just believed their teachings, and you accepted your way, you were eternally secure. this was not a teaching of Christianity until the reformation. how bout in revelation, where the Lord warns those that are lukewarm, that he will spew them out of his mouth? also, do you see anywhere in scripture, that virgin refers to anything other than a believer, and a member of the Church? thanks in advance. Peace :godisgoodne more little thing. grace through faith, and as taught by James, works.

 

I am simply asking you why you think man is lost?