Can someone tell me why the Iraq war is illegal?

[Daniel David]

I hear the CP proponents refer to the current war as illegal. Can anyone actually explain how it is illegal or is it just a charge that has no support in truth?

 

[KenH]

From an American perspective, it is illegal because the U.S. Congress never declared war on the nation of Iraq.

But I realize the federal constitution means very little any more in this nation, so that what is legal is just about what any majority says is legal, or some judge.

 

[JGrubbs]

We have discussed this on some other threads. To say the war is illegal is the same as saying it is un-constitutional. Here is a the thread that we have discussed the issue of constitutional declarations of war.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/32/1943/2.html

 

[KenH]

Here is the proper, constitutionally way to involve our nation in military action:

Congressional Declaration of War
on Japan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 8, 1941

JOINT RESOLUTION Declaring that a state of war exists between the Imperial Government of Japan and the Government and the people of the United States and making provisions to prosecute the same.

Whereas the Imperial Government of Japan has committed unprovoked acts of war against the Government and the people of the United States of America: Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Imperial Government of Japan which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Imperial Government of Japan; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.

Approved, December 8, 1941, 4:10 p.m. E.S.T.

- LINK

 

[john6:63]

Was Clinton's war in the Balkans illegal?

 

[KenH]

Yes.

 

[john6:63]

UNSCR 678, 687 & 1441, provided the LEGAL basis for military action against Iraq.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by KenH:
From an American perspective, it is illegal because the U.S. Congress never declared war on the nation of Iraq.

Then our European activities in WW2 were also illegal. We declared war against Japan, but we never declared war against Germany or the Axis Powers.

 

[Daniel David]

My question would be that if Congress wasn't okaying the war, why did they fund it?

 

[KenH]

Most of what Congress funds is unconstitutional.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Johnv:
but we never declared war against Germany or the Axis Powers.

I think you need to do Google searches, Johnv.

Congressional Declaration of War
on Germany
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 11, 1941

The President's Message
To the Congress of the United States:

On the morning of Dec. 11 the Government of Germany, pursuing its course of world conquest, declared war against the United States. The long-known and the long-expected has thus taken place. The forces endeavoring to enslave the entire world now are moving toward this hemisphere. Never before has there been a greater challenge to life, liberty and civilization. Delay invites great danger. Rapid and united effort by all of the peoples of the world who are determined to remain free will insure a world victory of the forces of justice and of righteousness over the forces of savagery and of barbarism. Italy also has declared war against the United States.

I therefore request the Congress to recognize a state of war between the United States and Germany, and between the United States and Italy.

Franklin D. Roosevelt


The War Resolution
Declaring that a state of war exists between the Government of Germany and the government and the people of the United States and making provision to prosecute the same.

Whereas the Government of Germany has formally declared war against the government and the people of the United States of America:

Therefore, be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, that the state of war between the United States and the Government of Germany which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the government to carry on war against the Government of Germany; and to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States

- LINK

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by KenH:
Most of what Congress funds is unconstitutional.

Like the Air Force and Marines?

 

[KenH]

No. Like most domestic programs and foreign aid.

 

[JGrubbs]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by KenH:
Most of what Congress funds is unconstitutional.

Like the Air Force and Marines? </font>[/QUOTE]No, like the Department of Educations, National Endowment for the Arts, Planned Parenthood, "Pork Spending" Projects, etc.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by KenH:
No. Like most domestic programs and foreign aid.

But, being consistent with your logic, the Air Force and Marines are unconstitutional, because the Constitution only calls for an Army and Navy.

BTW - I stand corrected on the WW2 declaration of war with Germany. See? Saying "I was wrong" isn't painful at all.

 

[JGrubbs]

I would have to study the history of the Air Force and the Marines to better answer your questions. I do know that the Air Force started as the Army Air Corps, so that would make them a part of the Army, mentioned in the Constitution. As far as the Marines go, I think they were created by President John Adams, but I would have to study their history to be sure.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Johnv:
being consistent with your logic, the Air Force and Marines are unconstitutional, because the Constitution only calls for an Army and Navy.

I have no problem with having an air force or the marines as the federal constitution gives the federal government the power to defend these United States. The constitution doesn't call for the federal government creating atomic bombs, either, but I am sure glad we used them to defend our nation in World War II as the federal government is given the power by the federal constitution to defend these United States.

 

[sdcoyote]

This is going to take some time, but here is the reason I believe that it is unconstitutional.

The United States Congress never voted for the Iraq war. Rather, Congress voted for a resolution in October 2002 which unlawfully transferred to the president the decision-making power of whether to launch a first-strike invasion of Iraq. The United States Constitution vests the awesome power of deciding whether to send the nation into war solely in the United States Congress.

Imagine this: The United States Congress passes a resolution which states: "The President is authorized to levy an income tax on the people of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to pay for subsidies to U.S. oil companies." No amount of legal wrangling could make such a resolution constitutional. Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution grants the power to levy taxes exclusively to the United States Congress.

Now let us turn to reality. In October 2002, Congress passed a resolution which stated: "The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to 1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and 2) enforce all relevant United States Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq." As he determines to be necessary and appropriate.

Congress cannot transfer to the president its exclusive power to declare war any more than it can transfer its exclusive power to levy taxes. Such a transfer is illegal. These are non-delegable powers held only by the United States Congress.

In drafting the War Powers Clause of Article I, Section 8, the framers of the Constitution set out to create a nation that would be nothing like the model established by European monarchies. They knew the dangers of empowering a single individual to decide whether to send the nation into war. They had sought to make a clean break from the kings and queens of Europe, those rulers who could, of their own accord, send their subjects into battle. That is why the framers wisely decided that only the people, through their elected representatives in Congress, should be entrusted with the power to start a war.

The wars of kings and queens of Europe had brought not only havoc and destruction to the lives of those forced into battle and those left to suffer their loss. They had also brought poverty. They were stark symbols that the subjects living under such monarchies lacked any voice or any control over their destiny.

Thomas Jefferson called it "an effectual check to the Dog of war."

Several years after the adoption of the Constitution, James Madison would write: "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war and peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

And that is why it is unconstitutional.

 

[Daniel David]

Well the CP folk failed to prove their case. I guess if the congress doesn't draft a resolution then it really isn't a declaration of war.

Bush asked for $87 billion to fight in Iraq and Afganistan. Congress approved it.

IF CONGRESS DIDN'T AGREE ON THE WAR THEY WOULDN'T HAVE FUNDED IT.

Sorry, it is not only legal, but it is morally necessary. I don't expect the CP to know anything about morals though. They want a pro-terrorist president.

 

[Daniel David]

Who interprets the consitution? Is is some pathetic lawyer who is for the terrorists, namely Peroutka, or is the government that interprets a government document? Hmmmmmm.

Sorry, Peroutka isn't the only one who can read the consitution. A vote for Peroutka is a vote for al-queda.