Can you be saved and not know it?

[Brother Bob]

Here is a relevant article by Zane Hodges.

http://www.faithalone.org/journal/1997i/Hodges.html

Lacy

This is exactly what I said in the beginning. You believe you "know" it.

If I believe it, I know that I have eternal life. There is no way I can believe what Jesus tells Martha, and yet not know whether I have eternal life or will be resurrected by Jesus.

 

[Salamander]

Maybe I thought he was wearing your type of shoes?

Thinking again, aren't we?

You had to wait until you got your special shoes before you "knew"?

Nope, I had to get saved before i knew i was saved.

I have only made the analogy: if the shoe fits, wear it.

No, you made an outright accusation. Big difference.

Do you show video also?

And what if I did? I see you can't remain confused in light of the facts without willing doing so.

Deal with the scriptures and quit acting like a baby.

 

[Brother Bob]

Thinking again, aren't we?

Your thought, I just repeating it back to you.

You had to wait until you got your special shoes before you "knew"?

Nope, I had to get saved before i knew i was saved.

Still say that is what you "believe".

And what if I did? I see you can't remain confused in light of the facts without willing doing so.

Deal with the scriptures and quit acting like a baby

When you resort to name calling just shows you already lost the debate and nowhere left to go.

You speak as if you are inherently presumptuous. I have never called anyone a devil. I have only made the analogy: if the shoe fits, wear it. Do you have the shoes on right now. I think so for the attitude you have is not of the Lord. IMO,

It was a question, statement and my opinion about your attitude. BTW, still stands.

 

[Salamander]

Your thought, I just repeating it back to you.

I can handle it, you cannot. Besides, I have never called you a name.

Still say that is what you "believe".

Nope, it's what the Bible declares. You have a problem with the Bible.

When you resort to name calling just shows you already lost the debate and nowhere left to go.

You keep playing these little games.

You can act like anything you want, but if you really are what you're acting like then I am justified in making the observation, if not, you're lying.

It was a question, statement and my opinion about your attitude. BTW, still stands.

Nope, it fails miserably in that you're judging my motive by a false premise of your own invention. Therefore it is still a lie.

You're obviously one of those who demand a doctrine by a very limited view of Scriputre, and those Scriptures you have taken out of context.

You cannot deal with the scriptures because you cannot defend your view, but persistently offer only your opinion.

You keep on standing on your opinion, I'll keep standing on the Bible.

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Your thought, I just repeating it back to you.
I can handle it, you cannot. Besides, I have never called you a name.

Quote:
It was a question, statement and my opinion about your attitude. BTW, still stands.
Nope, it fails miserably in that you're judging my motive by a false premise of your own invention. Therefore it is still a lie.

You're obviously one of those who demand a doctrine to a very limited view of Scriputre, and those Scriptures you have taken out of context.

You cannot deal with the scriptures because you cannot defend your view, but persistently offer only your opinion.

You keep on standing on your opinion, I'll keep standing on the Bible.

Salander

 

[EdSutton]

This is exactly what I said in the beginning. You believe you "know" it.

With all respect, what you are saying, is not what Professor Hodges is saying. Nor is it what I have been arguing, here on the BB, as well. I happen to be a member of the Grace Evangelical Society, have several friends who are also members, and "know", for myself, what Prof. Zane C. Hodges is saying, as well as have some books by both him, and by Dr. Robert L. Wilkin. I could find them if necessary, but seldom quote from any, as you know, preferring to compose my own posts.

He is NOT saying that he 'believes' that he (or any other) (may) "knows", that he has eternal life. Rather he is saying that he "knows" that he "knows" he has eternal life. This is entirely consistent wi th the "free grace" position that I hold, and is in contrast with the positions of both the so-called Arminian, and the so-called Calvinist camps.

I have not ever met Prof. Hodges, nor Dr. Robert L. Wilkin, the Executive Director of the GES, face to face. I have conversed with both on several occasions for extended times, and in detail, at the cost, to me, of a fairly good size "chunk of change", on my phone bill, and two of my friends are teachers on the staff of the Grace Evnagelical School of Teology, and another who has served on the board of the Grace Evangelical Society, so I offer that I know whereof I speak.

Ed

 

[RichardJS]

Zane Hodges

Is he not the chap that holds to non-lordship salvation and millennial exclusion?

 

[Brother Bob]

Is he not the chap that holds to non-lordship salvation and millennial exclusion?

Ed knows him personally, we ask him.

ZANE C. HODGES
also believe the true biblical gospel. Am I saved? Of course.

Maybe he knows because he "believes" I think that is what he is saying, so if you remove the believes, then the knows is gone. Right?

 

[Salamander]

Salander

Love like a brother from another mother, Brother Bob, but you're wrong to believe that I don't KNOW I am saved.

 

[Brother Bob]

Love like a brother from another mother, Brother Bob, but you're wrong to believe that I don't KNOW I am saved.

I told you to "know" all you want but it all comes from believing, whether you like it or not.

 

[Salamander]

Ed knows him personally, we ask him.

ZANE C. HODGES
also believe the true biblical gospel. Am I saved? Of course.

Maybe he knows because he "believes" I think that is what he is saying, so if you remove the believes, then the knows is gone. Right?

Nope, you have to change every verb "know" to believe, and every noun "knowledge'" to belief.

Your arguement would give all other religions a good ground.

Maybe that is it? Maybe you're really a hindu posing as a Baptist?:laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

You mean you don't believe that you "know" you are going to Heaven. If you don't believe that, then why are you telling me

so?




Here is another unbelievable quote from Hodges:

“People are not saved by believing that Jesus died on the cross; they are saved by believing in Jesus for eternal life, or eternal salvation.”

 

[Salamander]

I told you to "know" all you want but it all comes from believing, whether you like it or not.

Then maybe God lied????????????


Uh, :godisgood:

 

[Brother Bob]

You mean you don't believe that you "know" you are going to Heaven. If you don't believe that, then why are you telling me so?
__________________

 

[Salamander]

You mean you don't believe that you "know" you are going to Heaven. If you don't believe that, then why are you telling me so?

You insist that I only believe, but I KNOW the change the Lord made in me due to my first believing. My belief then became K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E.

I don't have to wait until the Lord separates the goats and the sheep, I already KNOW I am one of His sheep.

 

[Brother Bob]

You know you are one of His sheep but you don't believe it, right?

 

[EdSutton]

Is he not the chap that holds to non-lordship salvation and millennial exclusion?

Zane Hodges does not hold to so-called "Lordship Salvation". Nor do I, for that matter, as my posts clearly show. Both He and I hold to some form of what is commonly called "Free Grace", although I have said, on this board, that the phrase is redundant, and actually meaningless. If it is grace, it is free by defintion.

I have not conversed with him about so-called "millennial exclusion" and am not sure what that is even supposed to mean, so I cannot comment on that. If it means what it sounds, like, I do not hold to that, but can speak for no other.

Ed

 

[Salamander]

You know you are one of His sheep but you don't believe it, right?

I KNOW I AM ONE OF HIS sheep because He said I am.

Go argue with Him.

Either you know you have the Word of God or you just simply believe you have it.

 

[Brother Bob]

Zane Hodges does not hold to so-called "Lordship Salvation". Nor do I, for that matter, as my posts clearly show. Both He and I hold to some form of what is commonly called "Free Grace", although I have said, on this board, that the phrase is redundant, and actually meaningless. If it is grace, it is free by defintion.

I have not conversed with him about so-called "millennial exclusion" and am not sure what that is even supposed to mean, so I cannot comment on that. If it means what it sounds, like, I do not hold to that, but can speak for no other.

Ed

What if you completely deny your faith Ed.?

 

[Brother Bob]

I KNOW I AM ONE OF HIS sheep because He said I am.

Go argue with Him.

Either you know you have the Word of God or you just simply believe you have it.

Would you explain how anyone could know they are one of His sheep, but yet they don't believe it? That theology will top all that has ever crossed the paths of mankind.

Here is a man that knows he is "saved" but he don't "believe" it.