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Featured Can you identify the "dogs" or "swine"?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Wesley Briggman, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Mat 7:6 KJV Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    John Wycliffe
    "The church (Roman Catholic Church) bitterly opposed it: "By this translation, the Scriptures have become vulgar, and they are more available to lay, and even to women who can read, than they were to learned scholars, who have a high intelligence. So the pearl of the gospel is scattered and trodden underfoot by swine.""

    The quote above is the only reference I have found where anyone identifies the subjects of Mat 7:6.

    The RCC taking issue with John Wycliffe's effort to translate the Bible into English.

    Can you, or anyone to your knowledge, identify the "dogs" or the "swine" in your midst?
     
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes. The dog is a black lab named "Sadie."

    The swine are pot belly pigs owned by a neighbor.
     
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  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Dogs and swine are both unclean (Traif) animals according to the law.

    Dogs probably represent unbelieving Gentiles opposed to the gospel pigs possibly Jewish people opposed to the gospel.

    In either case they oppose the true wisdom given from God and could not understand or appreciate it.
     
  4. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for your thoughtful reply. First one - not so much.
     
  5. terrpn

    terrpn Member

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    Would have to find the reference, but dogs are referred to as male Gentiles and swine are female Gentiles


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    As i try to keep this passage in its context, i've always considered Christ's admonition to be: Do not "judge" the world (Pigs and Dogs) and try to moralize a person into "being holy" by pointing out all their sin and telling them to Change. They will just get mad at you and try to destroy you. Instead, share with them the glorious Gospel of Christ and let the Holy Spirit Change their hearts.
     
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus is warning us to be wise in to whom we give fortht the message of the Gospel, as some will hear it with glladness, whiel those like the Pharisees would try to kill you off for that!
     
  8. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Be care to whom we give the Gospel to? Please explain this.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I think the Lord was just telling us to be innocent as dfoves, but wise as snakes, as some that we try to share with just might try to harm us!
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Y, can you give an example of "harmless as Doves but wise as serpents"?
    In your estimation.
     
    #10 HankD, Aug 13, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    While going thru certain Muslim nations, make sure that unless youy KNOW GOd commanded you to talk, just pass on thru!
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    How about right here at home, say with family?
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Good question, as would say that some need to be prayed for a lot that the Lord opens their ears and eyes first!
     
  14. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Serious deception is involved - people who have infiltrated the church for their own evil ends -
    2 Peter 2:17 These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity – for ‘people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.’
    20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: ‘A dog returns to its vomit,’ and, ‘A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.’

    That looks like people who have professed conversion & been baptised. They have learnt enough to gain a leadership position & corrupt the Gospel - freedom to sin rather than freedom from sin. Hypocrites.

    Paul refers to the unbelieving Jews as dogs -
    Phil. 3:2 Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. 3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh – 4 though I myself have reasons for such confidence.

    The OP text -
    Mat. 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
    6 ‘Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

    They excuse their own sin & condemn others - Pharisees were masters at this. And the swine make no attempt at change - baptised swine who continue in sin that grace may abound - to them.
     
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  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Hmm, the surface lesson, the most obvious is that the unregenerate can mimic the Christian life, mimic the talk, the camaraderie but sooner or later the true nature cannot be held back. Note both the dog and the sow "return" to its corruption and filth.

    IMO, It is within the realm of possibility that these dogs and pigs remain in the physical confines of the local church and in fact may be a common occurrence. This depends on their ability to hide their lust for the corrupt and/or the ignorance of the sheep who cannot see their true nature.
     
  16. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    I agree. We are told not to give that which is holy to dogs or cast our pearls to swine.

    We can look back is see our mistakes. However, my question remains, being pro-active:

    Can you, or anyone to your knowledge, identify the "dogs" or the "swine" in your midst?

    The church building, sanctuary, tabernacle, is, in my opinion, a place where believers gather to worship. It is not intended to be a place for goats to gather with sheep. However, the mantra that God loves sinners, so come on in is encouraging the pollution of the sanctuary. While it is true we are all sinners, not all sinners are equal. Some of us have been cleansed by the precious blood of Christ.
     
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Woudl be those who claim to be Christians, but are not in the biblical sense of the term, as they see themselves acceptable to god by being part of a church, been water baptized, raised in church, but but not in a saving relationship with Christ!
     
  18. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    We, being human, can not be sure even if we see dog and/or pig behaviour in the individuals in our assembly be they wheat or tares..

    While we should not cater to their lust we are told to not uproot them because they may be "wheat" after all.

    Matthew 13 the Lord of the Harvest plants wheat, an enemy plants tares (weeds).

    27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
    28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
    29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

    30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles
    to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
     
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Man can only look on the outer things. Only God can look on the heart.

    We are called to the ministry of reconciliation, not the ministry of judgementalism.
     
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  20. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Nevertheless there are very serious warnings against them - even infiltrating our congregations, attending communion feasts & teaching error, particularly corrupting godly conduct & the Gospel message. Jude 3-4

    Balaam is frequently warned against - though every word of his is a word of blessing for Israel, in obedience to the LORD. His condemnation is because of his encouragement of shared worship with pagans who had become friendly. Rev. 2:14

    Korah is an instructive study - Numbers 16 - his dispute with Moses began with the simple assertion - The whole community is holy, every one of them, and the Lord is with them.’ They wanted an equal share in the worship of the LORD.

    We do need discernment & should be alert to subversive elements. How many lives have been ruined by corrupt religious leaders - until very recently priests could do what they liked with trusting youngsters who were not believed when they spoke up. How many girls seduced by Irish priests were subjected to life imprisonment in the "Magdalene Laundries."
     
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