Careless Women or Chaste Godly Women

Freeatlast "I do not know if anyone has noticed but when ever something about women is brought up on this type of subject someone always trys to get off the subject and point to men or suggest that the topic is bashing. However I have never seen a topic where men are dealt with and men try and get off topic by pointing to women or suggest that someone is bashing men. Sort of makes one think"

Well yes it does. Since I am woman.

 

ummm....sorry about the typo...I didn't mean "I am woman" I meant "I am A woman", and I am speaking about the issue both as a woman and Scripturally.

Many look at outward appearances to determine spirituality. I have dressed modestly all my life, even before I was a Christian. It is something that I taught ALL our children. Men can be just as vain and big of peacocks as women, and they can spend as much time in front of the mirror as women, and as much on clothes.

Modesty comes from within. It is a heart desire to be obedient to our Lord first and foremost. It comes also, as a married woman, from a desire to not dishonor my husband by dressing seductively or immodestly.

I expect the same from my husband. Immodest dress on both sides is very often due to lust of the flesh and ego.

Women are constantly beat over the head with the subject of modesty. I have seen it done for years.

What is missed is that it is a sin issue of lust and vanity for many. And immodesty is also, in the flesh, desired by men and women. Most fashion designers for women are men. And if you ever watch fashion trends the goal is seduction.

The story of Adam and Eve being clothed is not just an allegory. It is about being aware of our bodies and the flesh, and the God given need to cover our nakedness, both men and women.

Years ago the book came out called Fascinating Womanhood. A little test was put forward as the standard for women not wearing slacks. The idea was if you looked at a picture of a woman in slacks and then looked away and looked back again, what were you seeing. Most said they were drawn to the crotch, because the picture was black on white and the stance and line of the leg automatically drew your eye to the center. There was no mystery there.

But, no one bothered to apply that same test to a picture of a man, under the same conditions. The end results are the same...because they have the same overall skeletal structure. The premise is false as a reason for women to not wear slacks, or to suggest that they are bad for women and good for men, from that modesty perspective. For many, climate very much dictates what is appropriate for attire. And modesty will very much be a consideration for men and women who love God.

There are fashions that are clearly men fashions and there are fashions that are clearly ladies fashions. No man is going to go into a womans clothing store and start trying on ladies slacks because they have two legs and a zipper somewhere on them that allows for easier attire. No woman who believes God, is going to go into a mans store to try on men slacks. There is a difference in how they are made and look. I used to custom sew. I have seen the difference.

Both men and women fashions can be incredibly modest or not. The issue of unisex clothing shouldn't even be an issue for Believers. It's something you just learn to not utilize. Loose and unrevealing clothing can be many things to many people. There is a huge difference in being modest and baring thighs, midriffs, chests, abdomens, butt cracks, slits up to unmentionables, and so on. And men can be just as guilty of immodesty in how they present themselves. The most modestly dressed woman can still be seductive in her posture, how she looks and interacts. Clothing will not hide that. The same goes for a man.

Personally I like to wear dresses or skirts as much as possible. But if there are high winds or it's 50 below..there is no way my husband would allow me to wear a loose skirt or dress, even a long one. It would not only end up being immodest and blown up around my head, it would be risking my health. We've been involved in Search and Rescue, and to wear a dress would not only have been ludicrous on a search, but would not be allowed for safety reasons. But modesty can still be achieved, for those who want it.

True modesty comes from a heart desiring to honor God.

 

Sorry but this sounds like one of those women bashing threads to me "most women however do" I don't appreciate your lumping most of the women into that description. Why don't we cut to the chase and let you give us your dress code or whatever rule you are advocating for women.
Murph

 

Say what????!!!!!
Men doing road work, no shirts.
Men doing yard work, no shirts.
Shorts.
Plumber's crack,,, need I say more.(not just for plumbers anymore)
What about those men who are wearing their pants on their hips and thier underware is showing.
Tight jeans.
Why do you think store have to have a no shoes, no shirt sign? It's not women with no shirts their afraid of.
It
s been my experience that women do no go in public with no shirt. At least here they do not.

 

The reason has to do with our differing biologies (male/female). Some very recent studies have shed light on opposite sex attraction and allowed us to better understand why we behave the way we do and why some social mores such as the ones being discussed on this thread exist.
The study I speak of was conducted at the University of Florida and invloved two groups one male and one female consisting of people from different age, ethnic, and general demographic backgrounds. The two groups were then asked to rate the attractiveness of different live models of the opposite sex. The models presented to each group (female models for the male group/vice versa)were of various levels of physical shape and fittness and dressed in various stages of attire from casul/provocative, casual nonprovocative - to formal/provocative, formal nonprovocative. The results were very interesting.
Women predominently selected the well dressed male models irregardless of body type or provocativeness of the attire as most attractive.
Men on the other hand, selected the most shapely models irregardless of the provocativeness of the attire. General assumptions - men like the form, women like the wrapping paper. Of course attire that complements a womans form would be expected to illicit a greater reponse from males, the general assumptions from the study suggest that if women don't have the assets to begin with - it won't have a profound effect on the men.
Implications - irregardless of dress men will be attracted to a very shapely woman. And if you are equipped with what is deemed to be the cultural standards of beauty, then men will ogle over you irregardless of what you are wearing as, unless you're equipped with an old U.S. Navy Mark V diving suit, your assets will show and/or they will connect the dots.

 

The study was intended to shed light on the subconscious workings of males and females and what predisposes us to behave the way we do. The results of the study affirm the results from others that men and women are initially predisposed to looks when dealing with sexual attractiveness, but what looks good to a man and woman differs. The study was concerned with basic attractiveness on the most fundamental level. And of course different people are attracted to different things but when looked at a a populational whole, tend to fall into distinct categories.
For the sake of another arguement lets go back to the issue of the looks test. In my experience this is the minimum threshold that begins a serious relationship. These two people who open themselves up to the possibility that the date could be the start of something that could evolve into a more intimate arrangement do so on the basis of that person is acceptable to them in the looks department (related to sexual attraction).There are probably other factors that figure in as well but that is an issue. I have observed that if a potential match is not acceptable in physical appearence to someone they usually do not open up the possibility any further or if they do it doesn't go anywhere. Now as a relationship progresses one or both parties may choose to terminate the relationship due to the fact that the partner does not hold up to a higher expectation of the other ie. spirituality, attitude, fiscal responsibility, compatibility issues, etc...
And what is attractive to one person may not be attractive to the next but studies into human behavior have shown that attractiveness is a fundamental catalyst for an intimate relationship.
Yes, I as many other men do enjoy being in the presence of a Godly woman. I have many Christian female friends. But some of them I am physically attracted to and some I'm not. The ones who I'm attracted to hold the potential for a more serious relationship, the ones who don't never will. Physical attractiveness is not something that grows on me - it's either there or its not. I can grow emotionally attatched to a person but unless the physical component is present, I cannot develop an intimate relationship with that person that will culminate in marriage and sex. And in my observations most Christian men I know at the Church I attend seem to fall along the same lines. There are many godly women in my church but the ones who get the most attention from men are the godly ones who are also physically pleasing. Sinful? No, its the way we are hardwired. And like I said some people are attracted to different things. There is a woman in the college and career class who is really nice and shes thin, but honestly I don't think she's that attractive. But a friend of mine thinks she's that Queen of the world.

 

There is no dissagreement between you and I on this issue. There are clearly fasions of dress that are inappropriate in any setting. But there is also a subjective component to all this due to the fact that a persons physical makeup can have an effect of what could be considered appropriate/innapropriate. The is a girl in my church named Gina who has about a 35 DD chest measurement. Its there and no matter what she puts on you can clealy see the makeup. All t-shirts stick to here like spandex and unless shes wearing a dress that covers clear up to her neck....well you get the idea. My point is that while there are cetain genral standards for what is considered modest there can be no one size fits all rule.

 

There are two divergent principles here, and they should not and cannot be connected.

Women are to dress in a modest manner, no matter what the guys are doing or thinking

Men are to control their thought life, and their eyes, no matter how the women are dressed

 

This was written: "The statement that a man will ogle over an attractive women no matter how she covers herself is false. The statement is far too dogmatic. Yes some men have absolutely no respect for any woman no matter what she wears since he sees her as nothing but a piece of meat for a soothing for the lust of the eyes."

I must disagree. I no longer get "oggled," being an older woman and overweight to boot. Also, any decent men my age who are interested in me show more respect and will also note my wedding band. However, when I am in public places with my daughter, who is in her thirties and the mother of three, they certainly oggle her! The last time this happened, it was a family of 6 - 8 men, and it took all I had to keep from going over and knocking their oggling blocks off. Oggle? You have never seen "oggle" until you see theirs! I looked my daughter over, and she was fully covered, head to toe; furthermore, she never knew they were even there, so she did not "ask for it."

I must admit, however, that I have a problem with the lack of modesty in religious women. It does not exist in my place of worship, and when I was at my daughter's church, I noted that they are not having a problem. However, it certainly exists in many churches.

I have mentioned before one church I visited a couple years ago, where we saw more body parts than I see on TV all day long, including several inches down one woman's red thong. According to the Bible, when we are not interested in the Truth, one of the curses is nakedness.

However, as has been mentioned, men must also be modest and they must also demand modesty.

 

Thank you for pointing that out. Too often many times these threads get hijacked by P.C. hogwash. I will be the first to admit that it is not a very encouraging topic for any woman who does not meet up to the standards that your daughter must possess to warrant such "ogling". But to ignore credible scientific studies, a watershed of which all basically point to similar conclusions about our behavior, is comparable to driving around on vacation and assuming that the world is still flat and you could fall off if you drive too far.
Yes, Christians should and do hold themselves to higher standards than the world but Christian men and women are still fundamentally men and women and professing Christianity and conversion does not automatically wipe the slate clean of thousands of years of hardwired genetic behavior.
Gosh to listen to some people on these threads you would think that a couple never even heard of sex or anything related until after the hotel dooor closes on the wedding night.