Featured Cause and effect, singular versus plural - Jn. 6:44

Your whole statement presumes their innocence for their inability as that is the only possible way they could have an excuse. The very simple verse that says "the wages of sin is death" repudiates your whole presumption. Inability is not due to righteousness but sin and they sinned in Adam and the proof is that every human being coming into the world is subject to that WAGE of death which cannot be earned by righteousness.

There is no need to convince the will if the will is unaffected by sin. If the will is effected by sin then convincing is not the issue is it? Romans 7:18 clearly demonstrates the will cannot overpower the "law of sin" and therefore it is the indwelling power of the law of sin that is the prohibitor not the will. Hence, drawing must be the power of God that renders that deals with the real INTERNAL problem which is the power of "the law of sin."

Your illustration fails to be a proper application to John 6:44 because it is PURELY EXTERNAL without any kind of INTERNAL problem or solution found within the person of the recruit.

 

You remind me of the demoncrats that come on Fox on the weekend. They are wrong and they know they are wrong but they come on to do one thing and one thing only. Confuse and divert the listeners while directly contradicting the facts and then say they did not.

You are the one who said this:

If they have an internal inability to believe then they have a perfect excuse for not believing, and Paul says they don't have any such excuses (Rom. 1).

The "if" presents a hypothetic consideration. Your hypothetic consideration is completely and totally based upon the presumption that those in Romans 1 have a "perfect excuse" only because you are assuming they are not accountable for their inabilty. For if they were accountable for their inability there can be no excuse at all even in spite of their inability.

So, your whole statement presumes that someone other then themselves are accountable for their own inability as that is the only possible way to claim they could claim "inabiltity" as a justified excuse.

What you don't understand is that they are accountable for their inability as spiritual inability is PART of the consequences of their sin IN ADAM. The absolute proof they acted IN ADAM is that all humans coming into the world partake of the WAGES of sin and that is UNJUST unless they also EARNED those wages in some sense. The whole human nature existed in "ONE MAN" and by "ONE MAN's disobedience many were made sinners" because ALL MEN existed in Adam as ONE HUMAN NATURE acting in unity and when he sinned "all men sinned." That is why we PARTAKE of the WAGES of sin because we PARTOOK in the EARNING of sin.

Therefore, inability is EARNED by all mankind in the fall and thus NONE, no not one, can use that for an excuse.

 

Do you reject the indwelling "law of sin" also? If not, then how do you explain the INABILTY OF THE WILL in Romans 7:18 to overcome "the law of sin"? This fact alone repudiates your whole illustration and its total EXTERNAL problem and solution scenario as beng applicable to John 6:44. For if the will cannot overpower indwelling "law of sin" then what frees the will to come to Christ if it is not an INTERNAL power superior to the INTERNAL power of "the law of sin"?? It cannot be mere EXTERNAL exposure to the gospel or else every human being so exposed would be freed from the power of indwelling sin. Ephesians 4:18 denies the problem is external and 2 Cor. 4:6 denies the solution is external.

What you do not grasp is that John 6:45 completely repudiates your illustration and theory that the gospel always comes in power rather than many times in "word only" as John 6:45 demands "EVERY MAN" taught by God comes to Christ and that is not true to merely EXTERNAL exposure to the gospel and you know that.

 

Well we see eye to eye on that:laugh:

Since when does resisting light demand it can't be seen? Notice that in this context there is NONE WHO RECEIVE IT (Rom. 1:18-32) - "no, not one" which repudiates your view entirely that light is they need to receive it.

Did God sin in setting wages for sin? Do you believe in "spiritual" death, and if so, do you believe it involves the mind, heart and will of man? If So, do you believe it is "separation" from God in those areas in a negative way?

 

Why play dodge ball?? You refer to Romans 1:18-20 but when it does not fit your theory you jump to Romans 4 where it talks about justified sinners unto whom the Gospel was preached (Gal. 3:6).

NONE IN Romans 1:18-31 came to the light - NONE. Romans 1:18-3:8 is about lost sinners left to light of nature, light of conscience, without any Divine transformation of nature will always supress light, always resist, always reject and that is the summary given by Paul of this section in Romans 3:9-18 - NO NOT ONE did good, became righteous but all "suppressed" the light. Romans 1:18-3:20 is about the JUST wrath of God revealed from heaven upon sinners due to their suppression of truth by Gentiles (Rom. 1:18-32) and their hypocrisy of self-righteousness (Rom. 2:1-3:8) when their true nature is revealed (Rom. 3:9-18) which the Law of God confirms to be ungodliness in God's sight (Rom. 3:19-20).

No, righteousness by the law in contrast to faith is dealt with in Romans 3:24-5:2.

No, I am not confusing anything. Romans 1:18-32 is a flat denial that any responded to the light of nature or the light of conscience or any other light but expressly states they suppressed it and then progressive hardening developed in more and more corruption.

It is the nature of sin (separation) that demands inability in mind, heart and will. a "carnal" mindset of ENMITY is a STATE OF WAR which by definition does not unite but divides producing INABIITY to love. a "carnal" mindset that "is" (STATE OF BEING) in active resistance to the revealed will of God does not unite but divides producing INABILITY to submit. It is this STATE of inability that sin is by nature.

 

Paul is speaking about ALL mankind in his natural state and their response to light. The progressive hardening in sin is because of the universal reaction of the fallen nature to light - it SUPPRESSES light "holds the truth IN UNRIGHTEOUSNES". Romans 3:9 is Paul's own summary of Romans 1:18-3:8 and it is a UNIVERSAL summary of the fallen state of man.

Inability does not deny ability to recongize light only the inability to respond correctly to light - "hold the truth in unrighteousness" The fallen nature recognzies truth but SUPPRESSES it.

This passage is speaking of ALL humanity in their fallen state as Paul concludes "there is NONE good....there is NONE that doeth good, NO, NOT, ONE" but "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That is man in his fallen natural state - all fallen mankind. Whether you like it or not, Jesus said, "NO MAN can" and that is universal inability stated in the clearest terms possible.

 

Where do you get that idea? Romans 1:18 opens up the subject of God's wrath revealed from heaven against all who SUPPRESS righeousness in unrighteosness. Paul then provides proof of that SUPPRESSION to remove any excuse to claim this wrath is unjust:

1. They are provided with light they both recognize and understand which inability does not prevent.
2. This light is revealed by creation both TO them and IN them by conscience
3. They willing reject the truth revealed and demonstrate that rejection by refusing to give God thanks but elevate their own selves to the level of God and reduce God to the level of created things. For this cause God progressively hardens them in their sin and a devolution begins where NONE REPENT or COME TO THE LIGHT. (Rom. 1:18-31) and therefore his wrath is just (Rom. 1:32).

Then there are those class of sinners who in their total depravity believe their own hypocritical self-righteosness will be vindicated by the Law of God and keep them from God's Wrath - Romans 2:1-3:8.

Their totally depraved character of hypocrisy is clearly set forth by Paul in Romans 2:1-5. Paul again sets forth the just basis for God's wrath against them (vv. 6-16) whether they are Jew or Gentile. God's method of judgement will be just based upon their own works with just consequences for both good and evil works (vv. 6-11). It will be according to the laws they have received whether under the law of Moses or under the law of conscience (vv. 12-15) and the just interpretation of both laws will be according to the Person of Jesus Christ as revealed in the gospel (v. 16).

Christ alone is the doer of the Law (v. 16) and therefore it is insufficient merely to possess the Law of God but one must be a doer of the Law of God to be justified in the day of judgement by the Law of God (vv. 17-29). One must be not merely conformed to the outward law as illustrated in circumcision but one must be conformed to the law of God as illustrated in the circumcision of the heart. The uncircumcised gentile who is circumcised in heart is more righteous than any Jew with only external righteousness. A true Jew is without hypocrisy but circumcised outwardly and inwardly (vv. 17-29).

Being a Jew has certain advantages over being a Gentile as more light is provided but more light only brings more condemnation upon the Jew and exposes his depraved nature (Rom. 3:1-8).

Rom. 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

God's wrath is just upon all fallen mankind as there is no difference between them as "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" and only God's grace can justify them (Rom. 3:24-27).


Romans 1:18-3:19 demonstrates NONE RESPOND due to their fallen nature but all SUPPRESS the truth.