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Christ is the end of the law

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by wopik, Jan 21, 2006.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    THis list includes BOTH pre-Cross AND Post-Cross statements about God's commandments

    But “some” might argue that these saints “are special” and don’t actually live under the ONE Gopsel of Gal 6. As far fetched as that idea is – lets pursue some “proofs” showing that such wild speculation can not possibly be true.


    Here John shows us that the saints of God commanded to “keep” the Pre-Cross Commandments of God.

    And here John shows us that the saints are still to keep the commandments of God AFTER the resurrection of Christ!

    Is it any surprise that Paul is in full agreement with John on this post-cross requirement to ”keep the commandments of God”?

     
  2. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    John Wesley-- is Christ "the end of the law"?

    In answer to the claim that at the death of Christ the precepts of the Decalogue had been abolished with the ceremonial law, Wesley said: "The moral law, contained in the Ten Commandments and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken, which 'stands fast as the faithful witness in heaven.' . . . This was from the beginning of the world, being 'written not on tables of stone,' but on the hearts of all the children of men, when they came out of the hands of the Creator. And however the letters once wrote by the finger of God are now in a great measure defaced by sin, yet can they not wholly be blotted out, while we have any consciousness of good and evil. Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God, and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.

    "'I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.' . . . Without question, His meaning in this place is (consistently with all that goes before and follows after),--I am come to establish it in its fullness, in spite of all the glosses of men: I am come to place in a full and clear view whatsoever was dark or obscure therein: I am come to declare the true and full import of every part of it; to show the length and breadth, the entire extent, of every commandment contained therein, and the height and depth, the inconceivable purity and spirituality of it in all its branches."--Wesley, sermon 25.

    Wesley declared the perfect harmony of the law and the gospel. "There is, therefore, the closest connection that can be conceived, between the law and the gospel. On the one hand, the law continually makes way for, and points us to, the gospel; on the other, the gospel continually leads us to a more exact fulfilling of the law. The law, for instance, requires us to love God, to love our neighbor, to be meek, humble, or holy. We feel that we are not sufficient for these things; yea, that 'with man this is impossible;' but we see a promise of God to give us that love, and to make us humble, meek, and holy: we lay hold of this gospel, of these glad tidings; it is done unto us according to our faith; and 'the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us,' through faith which is in Christ Jesus. . . .

    "In the highest rank of the enemies of the gospel of Christ," said Wesley, "are they who openly and explicitly 'judge the law' itself, and 'speak evil of the law;' who teach men to break (to dissolve, to loose, to untie the obligation of) not one only, whether of the least or of the greatest, but all the commandments at a stroke. . . . The most surprising of all the circumstances that attend this strong delusion, is that they who are given up to it, really believe that they honor Christ by overthrowing His law, and that they are magnifying His office while they are destroying His doctrine! Yea, they honor Him just as Judas did when he said, 'Hail, Master, and kissed Him.' And He may as justly say to every one of them, 'Betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss? It is no other than betraying Him with a kiss, to talk of His blood, and take away His crown; to set light by any part of His law, under pretense of advancing His gospel. Nor indeed can anyone escape this charge, who preaches faith in any such a manner as either directly or indirectly tends to set aside any branch of obedience: who preaches Christ so as to disannul, or weaken in any wise, the least of the commandments of God."--Ibid.


    To those who urged that "the preaching of the gospel answers all the ends of the law," Wesley replied: "This we utterly deny. It does not answer the very first end of the law, namely, the convincing men of sin, the awakening those who are still asleep on the brink of hell." The apostle Paul declares that "by the law is the knowledge of sin;" "and not until man is convicted of sin, will he truly feel his need of the atoning blood of Christ. . . . 'They that be whole,' as our Lord Himself observes, 'need not a physician, but they that are sick.' It is absurd, therefore, to offer a physician to them that are whole, or that at least imagine themselves so to be. You are first to convince them that they are sick; otherwise they will not thank you for your labor. It is equally absurd to offer Christ to them whose heart is whole, having never yet been broken."-- Ibid., sermon 35.

    Thus while preaching the gospel of the grace of God, Wesley, like his Master, sought to "magnify the law, and make it honorable."
     
  3. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Thanks to Bob. Also, there was a good contribution by Claudia.
    As long as anyone is truly born again in the Lord, I would tolerate some differences in our journey to the Mountain (Ps 121:1)

    It is good that Wesley classified the commandments between ceremonial and moral.

    Holy Spirit is not Anti-Commandmentist.
    Yeshuah was neither abolishing the Law but accomplishing it. Question is whether Yeshuah replaced all of it with different one?

    1. Animal Sacrifice was replaced by Crucifixion.
    Nobody would doubt about this.
    2. Tithe was replaced by donation as in 2 Cor 9:7
    I don't think Tithe was used for civil work during OT times, but there was a certain need for repair of the Temple and for many works. Today one may think Church buildings are in similar situation. But there are certain differences between OT times and NT times.
    3. Circumcision should be performed unto Gentiles today ? Galatians and Acts 15 don't say so.
    4. Feasts of Pesach(Passover), ULB (Unleavened Bread), Firstfruits, Pentecost, Day of Trumpet on the first day of the seventh month, Yom Kipur, Tabernacle Days, First Day of every month.
    These all point out Jesus Christ (Yeshuah Ha-Masiach: I believe that these were the shadow of Jesus and by following the Spirit of Christ we are performing these feasts. What about Sabbath?
    To me, 1st Day, 2nd Day, 3rd Day, all seven days of the week are Sabbath in Christ.
    My eternal life is Sabbath in Jesus, which I enjoy every day and every moment.
    If I keep Sabbath only on Saturday, it means that the rest days of the week are not Sabbath for me, which would be defacing the true meaning of Sabbath as the shadow of Jesus Christ.

    5. I do not criticize anyone who wants to keep Sabbath faithfully for the Lord, as long as such person is truly born-again in the Lord.

    6. I believe there are certain more teachings which have replaced or clarified the OT commandments in the clearer form, such as :

    1) Women should wear head-covering at the time of prayer and prophecy
    2) Lord Supper which often commemorates the death and resurrection of Jesus. We notice that Early church gathered together in order to keep this commandment, on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7) Someone say it was Habdallah which is a kind of fellowship after worship service, but I don't believe that the simple bread-eating was the purpose of the meeting on that day.
    On that day, Sermon was preached too, in addition to Bread-taking.
    3) Every one is equal as Brothers and Sisters, and Mothers as we read in Mt 23:8-11 and Mt 12:50. Calling anyone as Reverend is abosolutely wrong as it applies only to God!
    4) There are clear teachings about the qualification and election of Elders and Deacons as in 1 Tim 3:1-11 and Titus 1, which were not mentioned in OT.

    5)We have a clearer picture on Baptism even though there was Mikveh in OT times.

    6) The most important thing is about Being Born-Again, Salvation by Faith, which was not clear in OT times even though they were also implied in OT as serving God whole-heartedly.

    7) There was no mentioning about the church in OT, even though we know it in primitive form as we read in Acts 7:38

    8) Holy Spirit was not mentioned as a personal guidance to the law-keepers in OT times, but we NT believers have Him as our personal guidance.

    9) Acts 15 clearly mentions that Torah should not apply to the Gentiles as they are.


    If anyone wants to keep the Law strictly after really being born-again and following the Holy Spirit, then I would not oppose to the person at all. Otherwise, instead of following the Person- Holy Spirit, the living God, if anyone try to follow the Law, then she or he must keep them ALL, in which nobody has succeeded in human history.

    But what we have to keep in mind is that Holy Spirit doesn't work in contradiction to what He commanded in OT, unless He embraces such law under bigger and better umbrella - Jesus Christ.
    The priority is to keep the commandments in NT first. If we find no replacement, then we can believe that we should keep the commandments of OT in that aspects. Such are, thou shalt not kill, shalt not commit adultery, shalt not steal, ..., which may be called as Moral Law.

    Here is my testimony which I posted on the other thread.

    *************
    I personally was such a church man and could defend for the existence of God many times against unbelievers and was baptized by sprinkling. 4 years later what has to come has come, when I was preparing for suicide by blowing up myself with dynamite and was searching for the material at the miners' market.
    I experimented the dynamite and developped a good device for the ignition, then started to question about the judgment by God and wanted to make sure whether I had done my best or not. So, I went to a church and listened to a sermon, then the preacher asked the people to read Galatians 2:20. There I found myself was already crucified and that there was no need to commit suicide. It was extremely joyful news to me and I jumped here and there and on that night I could not sleep but read the Bible. I was born again on that day! Jesus became both my spritual Savior and physical Savior!
     
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