Christian Universalism?

Good in this case is to follow God. We look at one word to much and need to look at the word in context. We all do. I as well. Context is king.

Sin is a path away from God.

The 10 commandments maybe better read..the 10 words of God. Do not take me wrong, they are commandments. But they are more then just that. They are words that tell is who God is. Do not lie...for God is truth. Do not murder...love, for God is love. The commandments did not make good. Good was already here, for we had a good God. The commandments show us who God is.

The other side of this. To not follow his commandments, is to take a path away from God. In the OT we followed because of fear. In the NT we follow in love.

Yes is was good. But this was not the making of "good". Creation was good because it came from a good God. God is the essence of good, so good was never made.

It was a good creation from a good God.

 

So James;
In the final Analyzes you final say good was a "good creation from a good God". Like pulling hen teeth.

I will leave it there for we are getting off topic of "reformed believer", and I don't want to lead his thread off topic for this is a much deeper subject than just saying good and evil. peace

 

I didn't go through all the posts so I don't know if the group called the
Primitive Baptists Universalists (PBU) sometimes called "no-hellers" were mentioned.

As far as I know these are the only Baptists Universalists that I know of. Although I read a preserved article by a universalist in an old Boston paper (1800's) once who claimed to be a Baptist.

Anyway here is a blurb about the PBU:

http://www.universalist.org/sermons/perry_king_sermon_20040215.htm

Quaint and interesting.

HankD

 

Orginal Posts:
"My question for all, ( Calvinist or Arminian) is how we can reconcile that God would send anyone to hell for an eternity. If God is all knowing (and He is), why would he allow someone to come into existence knowing that they would never believe? We have the problem of an omni benevolent God allowing such a thing."

Sounds to me like a problem for those who believe in unconditional election.

BTW, the OP refers to a hyper-calvinist. Just what is a hyper-calvinists? A six point Calvinists?

 

Reformedbelirver writes:
"How do I refer to a hyper-calvinist? I never did so."

A quote from your first posts:
"I don’t think there are many universalist among the Baptist. I have read that the General Baptist of England adopted universalism, and the Particular Baptist became hyper Calvinist."


Reformedbeliever writes:
"Pardon me? How is this a problem only for those who believe in unconditional election? I fail to see the connection. I see it as a problem for calvinist or arminian alike... as I said in my OP."

I did not say it was not a problem for all christians. It is more of a problem for unconditional election than for others.

Unconditional election says only God made the choice of those who end up in hell. Those who were not of God's elect had no opportunity for heaven.

Unlike unconditional election, if you believe man has an input into the decision to accept Christ as savior, then man goes to hell for not accepting Christ as savior. Man at least has an opportunity to go to heaven.

 

Yes, I have been visiting that website for several years. It is one of my favorites. :thumbs:

Another excellent website is www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/univart.html.

 

What is "Christian Universalism"?​

By Ken Allen, Th.D. ​

What is meant by the term Christian Universalism?

That Christianity is a "Universal Religion," and is for people everywhere and in all times, is a statement that is disputed by very few Christians today. But, the full extent of the truth of its universality is not realized by the majority.

Many people today may understand the term "Universalism", as it relates to religion, as a word that designates the belief that "All religions are equally true, good, and that they all equally will lead to heaven, or to God." This definition of "Universalism" could better be described as "Pluralist Universalism" and could be equated with "secular humanism".

This definition of "Universalism" is NOT to be confused with the original meaning of "Universalism" as it related to Christianity. The original meaning of "Universalism", as it relates to Christianity, could now be better described by using the term "Christian Universalism".

Any true definition of Christian Universalism MUST INCLUDE THE BELIEF that God is all Sovereign, loving, powerful, wise, just, and ultimately rules over everything. It MUST ALSO INCLUDE the belief that salvation is only by faith in God and was finalized by Jesus Christ "who gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim 2:6). The definition of Christian Universalism DOES INCLUDE THE BELIEF that God "will have all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:4).

- rest at www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/chr-univ.html

 

I AM A CONVINCED UNIVERSALIST​

by William Barclay ​

Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at Glasgow University and the author of many Biblical commentaries and books, including a translation of the New Testament, "Barclay New Testament," and "The Daily Study Bible Series."

I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God. In the early days Origen was the great name connected with universalism. I would believe with Origen that universalism is no easy thing. Origen believed that after death there were many who would need prolonged instruction, the sternest discipline, even the severest punishment before they were fit for the presence of God. Origen did not eliminate hell; he believed that some people would have to go to heaven via hell. He believed that even at the end of the day there would be some on whom the scars remained. He did not believe in eternal punishment, but he did see the possibility of eternal penalty. And so the choice is whether we accept God's offer and invitation willingly, or take the long and terrible way round through ages of purification.

Gregory of Nyssa offered three reasons why he believed in universalism. First, he believed in it because of the character of God. "Being good, God entertains pity for fallen man; being wise, he is not ignorant of the means for his recovery." Second, he believed in it because of the nature of evil. Evil must in the end be moved out of existence, "so that the absolutely non-existent should cease to be at all." Evil is essentially negative and doomed to non-existence. Third, he believed in it because of the purpose of punishment. The purpose of punishment is always remedial. Its aim is "to get the good separated from the evil and to attract it into the communion of blessedness." Punishment will hurt, but it is like the fire which separates the alloy from the gold; it is like the surgery which removes the diseased thing; it is like the cautery which burns out that which cannot be removed any other way.

But I want to set down not the arguments of others but the thoughts which have persuaded me personally of universal salvation.

First, there is the fact that there are things in the New Testament which more than justify this belief. Jesus said: "I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself" (John 12:32). Paul writes to the Romans: "God has consigned all men to disobedience that he may have mercy on all" (Rom. 11:32). He writes to the Corinthians: "As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22); and he looks to the final total triumph when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:28). In the First Letter to Timothy we read of God "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth," and of Christ Jesus "who gave himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim 2:4-6). The New Testament itself is not in the least afraid of the word all.

Second, one of the key passages is Matthew 25:46 where it is said that the rejected go away to eternal punishment, and the righteous to eternal life. The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. I think it is true to say that in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but remedial punishment. The word for eternal is aionios. It means more than everlasting, for Plato - who may have invented the word - plainly says that a thing may be everlasting and still not be aionios. The simplest way to out it is that aionios cannot be used properly of anyone but God; it is the word uniquely, as Plato saw it, of God. Eternal punishment is then literally that kind of remedial punishment which it befits God to give and which only God can give.

Third, I believe that it is impossible to set limits to the grace of God. I believe that not only in this world, but in any other world there may be, the grace of God is still effective, still operative, still at work. I do not believe that the operation of the grace of God is limited to this world. I believe that the grace of God is as wide as the universe.


Fourth, I believe implicitly in the ultimate and complete triumph of God, the time when all things will be subject to him, and when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:24-28). For me this has certain consequences. If one man remains outside the love of God at the end of time, it means that that one man has defeated the love of God - and that is impossible. Further, there is only one way in which we can think of the triumph of God. If God was no more than a King or Judge, then it would be possible to speak of his triumph, if his enemies were agonizing in hell or were totally and completely obliterated and wiped out. But God is not only King and Judge, God is Father - he is indeed Father more than anything else. No father could be happy while there were members of his family for ever in agony. No father would count it a triumph to obliterate the disobedient members of his family. The only triumph a father can know is to have all his family back home. The only victory love can enjoy is the day when its offer of love is answered by the return of love. The only possible final triumph is a universe loved by and in love with God.

[Quoted from William Barclay: A Spiritual Autobiography, pg 65-67, William B Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, 1977.]​

- www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/barclay1.html






​

 

to all,

Simply put, if the above post is saying "All men (and women) are saved, even if they do not believe in Christ, it is a heresy pure and simple.

If all are saved, as I think the above post is arguing for, then there is no need for a separation of “Sheep” and “Goats” and that contradicts Scripture.

There are SO many things wrong with “Universalism” even the heresy of so-called “Christian Universalism.” I won’t go into them at this time.

Blessings, and avoid this heresy!

The Archangel

 

That is exactly what it is saying except that one day they beyond this life they WILL believe in Christ.
However I don't believe anyone posting here believes even that (unless there are "no-hellers" here). The O/P wanted to know about Universalism. What you are seeing and reading are quotes from articles and books from those who do (even some Baptists).


HankD

 

I am not sure what you mean by "that" but I do believe that God's love will eventually overcome even the hardest heart and Hell, while being an awful place that no one should want to go to, will be a temporary abode when looked at from the standpoint of eternity.

 

They just believe that God creates them sinful and gives them a choice that don't include anything except hell, with the exception of the "elect".

 

Does the truth hurt or what. Tell me what is wrong with it. Calvinist do believe that you have a choice but you cannot choose "saved". You tell me where that is wrong.

 

So, now you are saying when they are born they are not sinners? But they choose to go out in sin? When you say it is against their nature you are saying they cannot choose salvation because of a nature that God give them. You speak both ways. Either choose one or the other you can't both. Please quit accusing me of anything. Just use Scriptures perferrably.