Christianity and Evolution

When all of the nonsense is removed, the core question comes down to what was the agent that started the process of Creation. For example, if one believes the Big Bang theory (which I do not), one either believes it happened all by itself, on its own, or that there was a Creator behind the process. It does not take a lot of intelligence to sort that one out.

Nope, I do not believe in evolution from species to species. I believe over time, there can be changes within a species, maybe even a genus. The Bible makes it clear God created creatures by kind.

 

Just pointing out that the question in the poll and this question are different questions.

The real question is, can Christians be in error and still be Christians? Of course.

Is Darwinism heresy? Yes. Is it science? No.

 

Speaking as a former theistic evolutionist, IMO, the core question is whether Christians believe that God created the earth and all it contains in 6 days or He didn't. I used to believe that God created the earth. That evolution, as I was taught for 50+ years, was how God did it. Believed that it, indeed, took millions of years to arrive at what we see today.

As it's already been told, I won't repeat all of what it took for me to do a 180 degree turn on what I thought I believed. Just say that it wasn't easy. (Just say, also, that much prayer was involved.) So firmly entrenched in what I thought was truth, it was like trying to reverse the direction of travel of the Titianic on a dime.

Reverse, on a dime, it did. A single paragraph in a study on why millions of years of evolution cannot explain deposits of oil and natural gas. The formation of same is in direct opposition to the old earth theory that evolution must hold. ie massive amounts of decomposing organic matter must be quickly gathered and put under tremendous pressure to create pools of gas and oil. What force could accomplish that? The flood recorded in Genesis.

When a basic underlying premise of a theory fails, the whole of the theory must come into question. A house cannot stand, in its entirety when supporting pillows are removed. Sampson proved that.

According to scripture, the flood was about a year in duration. If we believe that to be true, then why not believe the rest of the scriptures to be true, as well? In the Bible version debates one premise remains constant, regardless of which side of the issue is taken. God inspired the original recording of His word. Thus, God inspired Moses to accurately record the beginning - the creation. God created the world and all it contained in 6 days. Recording of the generations of mankind that followed creation gives an approximate date of creation.

Does some form of "evolution" exist? Yes, flu virus are continually evolving into new strains. Is that pillow strong enough to support the whole of everything needed to believe that what we see today took millions of years to come about? Are we so sure that carbon dating is without flaw(s) that it can be used as absolute proof that God used millions of years, instead of 6 24 hour days? At one time science taught that life could not exist at the bottom of the ocean due to pressure restraints and lack of sunlight. That is not the case.

As a side note, it's interesting to see how "evolution" is evolving, as well. At one time, it was thought that lightening strikes provided the electrical impulse needed to create life from the chemical mix (in sunlight) in the oceans. With the discovery that life can exist in the far depths of the sea, new theories are evolving that concludes life began in the depths rather than on the surface.

God doesn't change. His word doesn't change. Theories surrounding the whole scope of the evolution premise is changing - evolving. As Christians upon what pillows should our faith and belief rest? Isn't that the core of the issue? One that each Christian should decide for himself or herself.

In closing, two favorite Bible verses come to mind and into play. Proverbs 2:3-6 and 2 Tim 2:15. Believe those two verses, hand in hand, are why I'm no longer a theistic evolutionist.

Thank you for listening. :flower:

 

One thing I've always been curious about when reading debates about this issue is; that since (not if) we were created in God's image, why was there a need to evolve to begin with? Did God's initial image evolve along with us? Or did we have to evolve into it "more fully"? Did He make a mistake that took time and entropy to fix?

I do fall in "No" category for evolution, theistic or otherwise, God is bigger. So, the above questions are more rhetoric than me seeking true "enlightenment".

I think we need to stop trying to be the flea that directs the dog or the fly that steers the trash-truck.

 

No you cannot as a Christian reasonably hold to evolution. Evolution as it is understood in general terms among most people is the science that denies the creation story, denies the narrative biblical accounts, and denies God. It is a false science created by those who deny God themselves. Those who do not believe in God laugh at those who call themselves Christians and try to hold to evolution. They are only making fools of themselves.

 

believe in evolution/adaptation/change WITHIN species NOT across species!

God created a female/male dog, and in its DNA was rthe potential to have ALL the different dog kinds, but still always remained dogs!

NO dog ever became a cat!

 

My 2 cents worth....

Andy...brother...after going through and reading all the posts in this thread let me just offer you some good resources to search out in your quest for answers. They are the following:

Answers In Genesis/mainpage
&
The Institute for Creation Research

Either of these sources offer much excellent Biblical and scientifically sound research and information to help you in your quest while honoring God and the accuracy and authority of the Word of God. The Bible is sound in every respect spiritually, historically, and scientifically.
If you, like I, went through public education/indoctrination then your "default" position was more than likely a belief in the evolutiuonary process that you were taught and no...it isn't compatible with Biblical Christianity in any respect. I did not come from a Christian home so that was all I knew when I first got saved. Thankfully, God gave me faith and light to believe and embrace the truth that He was not only the Creator but the Sustainer of all that we see. Evolution can never be more than theory....random chance that has no order or designer. I have heard it said that if you were to take an intricate Swiss watch, disassemble it, place it in a sealed bag and shake it until it was properly reassembled and in good working order, then MAYBE you might be able to prove that this world and all in it were proof of Evolution......well....you "do the math" on the odds of that one. I don't know about you or anyone else but I don't have THAT kind of faith. The "theory" (taught as fact) of evolution is just man's prideful and satanically-inspired attempt to explain away man's need and obligation to acknowledge God as the Creator, Sustainer, and Lord of this universe and go his own way in rebellion to that. Trust God and His Word. You don't have to (nor can you) understand every little detail of God's Creative genius and His purpose to be a happy, fulfilled and useful Child of God. We have a whole blessed eternity to look forward to to enjoy and discover the depths of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ. Don't fall for the devils lies here.

Blessings to you,
Bro.Greg:saint:

 

I dont think believing in evolution "Voids" your salvation. However, Many Christians truly love and want to serve Jesus and are saved. I would just say that its not a consistent worldview.

 

How can dogs and wolves interbreed?

 

came of same family tree, as were from the common ancestor God created in the beginning, that took off as wolves. dogs, coyotes etc!

 

yes, they would be asopting a world view that assumes that these theories are proven "scientific facts!"

same way some saved hold a "less than" view on the Bible!

 

Perhaps you should review your understanding of the term "theory" particularly how it is used and defined in the scientific arena

http://www.livescience.com/21491-what-is-a-scientific-theory-definition-of-theory.html

 

It is either proven fact or not. If it is proven fact then say so bluntly. Playing with definitions under the guise of "science" is just the liberals way of trying to make it look like fact without saying so.

It is just plain stupid.

 

No it is not plain stupid. Try to understand the definition. I (science in general) is not "playing with the definition" under any guise...whatsoever.

 

Yes it is. There is no good reason to have the word theory means something different and in complete opposition to its original meaning. Unless you have an agenda.

 

In your framework your (our) theology could also be considered to be only a theory. Guess that is what faith is all about. And you are incorrect regarding the scientific use of the term "theory".

 

Faith is not a "theory". We do not believe in mystical things. We have an evidential faith. And we do not call it theory.

 

Certainly not...

Nothing can "void" one's salvation once they have been truly Born Again by the grace of God. I'd say it is probably true that most people today who have been educated in the public school system probably have at least some belief in an evolutionary worldview due to the indoctrination they received in the system. Many probably have some lingering belief in that theory even after they get saved. It took me years to come to a clear understanding of the truth even though it was my desire AFTER I was saved to be true to God and follow Him. Some also probably don't take time to investigate these kind of things or spend enough time in the scriptures to really come to any sound conclusions about such things.
As I said, there is NOTHING that can "void" one's salvation. I will say this though...to embrace an evolutionary worldview (Old Earth/Billions of Years) rather than being a Biblical Creationist (Young Earth/Thousands of Years) will destroy one's credibility as a true Bible Believer. When I encounter someone who claims to be a Bible Believer and says they believe in Darwinism it immediately tells me that they trust NOT in the Word of God as a Book of true science, history, and faith but rather, in the fallible changeable theories of man. That's pretty much a show-stopper for me....at least about THAT subject. We must be gracious to others....God has been so to us....but not capitulate to their unbelief.

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

I would agree with you on all these things Bro.Greg . I can be a little harsh towards people who arnt Creationists, (both Christians and atheists). Its the one debate that gets me pretty fired up if im not careful.

 

If they can only seed after their own kind, how they even be identified as dogs, as wolves, and as coyotes? A common ancestor, as you say, from which descendants branch out with adapted characteristics by geography, climate, available food, et al, is evolution.