Originally posted by Soulman:
Posted by Paidagogos: My posts say that smoking is sin, not addiction. You can have victory over it. The whole addiction model is based on false premises of dependency and codependency. It involves others being responsible for your sin. Also, it theorizes that your dependency or addiction is not your fault (i.e. result of your own actions and choices) but it is the result of some unmet need in your life.
You have a preoccupation with semantics. We are all sinners and addicted to sin. If not, why don't you quit sin? It is always the person that never smoked, drank or drugged that says it is just plain sin and not an addiction. I tell you that prior to salvation we were already condemned, Jn. 3:17 and belonged to Satan not God. Jn.8:44. All due to sin.
If you don't think that there is a chemical component to alcohol, tobacco etc. that makes these habits more difficult to break, you are sadly mistaken and uninformed.
A program like Reformers Unanimous DOES have a different twist although similar to some worldly programs. Most programs try to mimic spirituality. Your higher power etc. We are not re inventing the wheel here.
So what happens to a person newly saved who brings alot of this baggage? Or an unsaved person who just can't go on anymore?
The unsaved and saved are taught that Jesus Christ is the higher power. Not their version of God. A certain amount discipleship type principles are used as this is a Christian program. The person needs to be shown that Jesus is the only way victory can be achieved.
The person is taught to be honest with God and tell Him they engage theit habit because they love it. They also realize that if ready, and want to quit, they can tell God that if He is against it, So am I. God can begin to work where other plans have failed. I will tell you that I have seen Reformers Unanimous work because it's participants rely on the power of God. Once saved these folks put themselves in the position for God to help them.
You said, “It is always the person that never smoked, drank or drugged that says it is just plain sin and not an addiction.”
This is absolutely not true! You’re building a straw man and it won’t work. Any number of former druggies, drunks, and smokers can be found who will say their sin was plain sin. Did I smoke, drink,
etc.? It’s none of your business since my sins are forgiven and under the Blood of Christ. I’ll not enter this discussion with you—it is irrelevant and immaterial.
You say that Reformers Unanimous works. This seems to be the sole basis of your whole argument. So what? AA and all the other 12-step recovery programs claim to work too. As a researcher, we recognize something called the “halo effect.” This is a phenomenon that programs seem to work because the people are enthusiastic and believe in them. With time, this disappears and people begin looking for another program in answer to their problems. Furthermore, upon doing the statistics, you find that about 1/3 of the druggies and drunks change their behavior without any recovery program whatsoever. Additionally, there is a certain relapse rate from these programs. Can you show objective data that Reformers Unanimous does any better over a 5 year period?
Are you familiar with the Roloff Evangelistic Enterprises in Corpus Christi, TX? Under Roloff, who spurned any addiction theories and called it sin, many drunks and druggies found Christ as Saviour and deliverance from the bondage of their sin. Roloff reported something like a 90% “cure” rate. Can any 12-step program match this? On the other hand, we are more concerned about a program being Biblical than a supposed cure rate.
You say that I’m uninformed. Well, you’ve missed the boat there again! Biochemistry and psychology are my fields. I think that I know the literature of both much better than you seem to know. I did graduate work and taught biochemistry at a major research university. I have studied under Jay Adams and I teach a course in Psychology and Biblical Counseling. Additionally, I am well versed in secular psychological and am trained in psychometrics. After completing graduate course work, I did an internship under Dr. John Richards at a major state university. I’ve worked in a rescue mission, worked to establish a home for drunks and druggies, and taught in a foster care setting. Also, I’ve done counseling for a couple of decades. I am thoroughly familiar with current psychological literature and theories.
Therefore, I think that I am qualified to offer a rational, intelligent opinion. Can you say the same? I can assure you that there is no hard scientific evidence supporting your position. I recommend that you read
The Useful Lie by William Fairplay, a Christian medical doctor. In addition, you should read
12-Steps to Destruction by Martin and Deidre Bobgan. The Drs. Almy’s book
Addicted to Recovery would be another good resource for you. Gary Almy is a Christian psychiatrist who exposes the whole recovery movement for what it is—a fraud. In sum, I believe you are ill-informed of what you have accepted and believed.
If you want to read the aforementioned books, which will serve as an introduction, I will continue to discuss this issue with you when you understand the issues and can intelligently debate them. Otherwise, there is not time and space here to educate you.
Thank you.
