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Featured Church as a Rock Concert

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by rockytopva, Jul 3, 2024.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @Cathode,
    Repeating what you think you believe isn't going to make what is not true to be true.
    God is not a photon, 1 John 1:5, but He is Light. God is not an emotion, 1 John 4:8, but He is Love. The remembrance is of what Jesus accomplish on the cross once for all, Hebrews 10:10, we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    If the Catholic Church and it's teachings was all I was to know of Christianity, I would not have believed in my Lord Jesus Christ. A frightening thought. I believe 1 John 5:9-13 and 2 Corinthians 5:8.
     
  2. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    The words of Jesus are true, His flesh is real food and blood is real drink, those who deny these words of His, will disobey and not eat His flesh and drink His blood.
    Only those who believe Jesus can enter the feast, this requires the garment of faith granted by the Father.

    It takes faith to believe Jesus words here, it’s a hard teaching, every human thinking fights against it.
    Only by faith in Jesus words will a man believe.
    This is the singularity of Faith that all men must pass.

    The Eucharist is Jesus flesh and blood, His entire Self in covenant Communion.

    The one Sacrifice is shared out to all invited to the feast down the ages.

    Many deny the words of invitation down the ages, but those who believe Jesus words above all else, have their place assured at this feast.

    The martyrs of the early Church testified to the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist with their own blood, so that you could receive this gift of God.

    This invitation is sent out at great cost.
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Hear this. John 6 has nothing to do with the eating Lord's Supper.

    Note this, Revelation 20:15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Do you know your name will be in the book?
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No body is saying that the words of Jesus is false (be VERY careful here).

    No Christian believed that the bread and wine literally turned into blood and flesh for the first several centuries of Chriatianity.

    But like the Early Church Fathers wrote, they believed that there was a change in the meaning of the bread and wine (not a literal change to the elements).

    This is not denying Jesus' words. It is in keeping with the actual teachings of the Apostalic and Early Church.

    The bread and wine, of course, remains bread and wine. BUT they are in that moment the blood and body of Christ - not because they magically turn Christians into pagan cannibals but because the bread and wine take on a covenantal significance greater than bread and wine.
     
  5. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    John 6 has everything to do with the Last Supper.

    Jesus was separating the believers from the deniers, before the Covenant feast.

    Better for them who did not believe Jesus words to walk away than stay with Jesus and receive Jesus body unworthily without belief as Judas did. No garment means ejection to the outer darkness.

    This is very serious.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Delusional.
     
  7. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    Yes they did. I have quoted them in their own words, and can quote many more.

    I was a universally accepted belief for first 1500 years that the Eucharist is the fresh and blood of Christ.
    Catholic and Orthodox Churches all maintained the same belief from the Apostles.
    The majority of Christianity in the past and the majority of Christianity today hold to this central Christian belief.

    It was shortly after the reformation that the first deniers of the real presence became more prevalent, a small minority but they began a generational denial through some denominations.
    The desupernaturalisation of Christianity began, along with the denial of the effect of Baptism.

    “It is good and beneficial to communicate every day, and to partake of the holy body and blood of Christ. For He distinctly says, ‘He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life.’ And who doubts that to share frequently in life, is the same thing as to have manifold life. I, indeed, communicate four times a week, on the Lord’s day, on Wednesday, on Friday, and on the Sabbath, and on the other days if there is a commemoration of any Saint.” Basil, To Patrician Caesaria, Epistle 93 (A.D. 372).

    “You will see the Levites bringing the loaves and a cup of wine, and placing them on the table. So long as the prayers and invocations have not yet been made, it is mere bread and a mere cup. But when the great and wonderous prayers have been recited, then the bread becomes the body and the cup the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ…When the great prayers and holy supplications are sent up, the Word descends on the bread and the cup, and it becomes His body.” Athanasius, Sermon to the Newly Baptized, PG 26, 1325 (ante A.D. 373).

    Through from the disciples of the Apostles through all the centuries East and West, the reality of Jesus body and blood in The Eucharist has been maintained faithfully to today.
     
  8. Cathode

    Cathode Well-Known Member

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    At Judgement, if Jesus asks me why I believed that His flesh was real food and His blood was real drink. That the Eucharist was His Body and Blood.
    I can point to His own words.

    You said it Lord, and I believed.

    I don’t know how people will justify their unbelief.
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, they didn't.

    You did quote their words, but you also ignored many other statements they made in your sources.

    You quoted where they said that the elements are the blood and body, but ignored where they said that the elements changed not in substance but how they were previously known.

    I have noticed this with Catholics. They (you) have very good arguments and insights on some issues but then resort to less than honest arguments (either intentionally or via indoctrination) on others.

    Other Christians do this as well when looking through history. It's not unique to Catholics.

    And that's fine with me (like I said, I'm pointing out facts for others - I don't debate Catholics, Mormons. Muslims, etc. because we appeal to different authorities).
     
  10. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    It is obvious, and verifiable, that the wine and bread don't physically become Jesus's flesh and blood. People aren't justifying unbelief but they are not trying to believe something that is obviously untrue and not required. As a Baptist, I know most in my camp say the Lord's supper is a time of remembrance and nothing more. But in Reformed circles, many are taking the view of John Owen: "and this bread and wine, though not changed at all in themselves, yet they become to us by faith, not what they are in themselves, but what is signified by them - the body and blood of Christ."
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    This is very close to what the Early Church wrote of the elements. The elements themselves do not change but the meaning of the elements do.
     
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Closed due to length and thread drift.

    Please feel free to start another.
     
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